The Royalty Myth For Authors

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Well, the thing that I I think most authors think is that, and I thought it too, you know, I'm gonna write this book and everybody's gonna want to read it, and I'll just sit back and collect royalties. And it doesn't quite happen that way. You do have to work really hard to get it out there.

Welcome To Read And Write

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. My name is Natasha Tines, and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey.

Meet Victoria Vaughn And The Memoir

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. Today I have with me Dr. Victoria Vaughn, who's a retired educator and college administrator who found herself single at 55 after a 30-year marriage. What followed was a parade of frogs, and she wrote about all of them in her debut memoir, Oh the Frogs I Kissed Before I Finally Found My Prince. I love that. Dr. Victoria, welcome to the show. So excited to have you today. And I really, really love the title of your book. Thank you. And the idea and also the artwork. I mean, you've you've done an amazing work. So, first,

Divorce At 55 And Dating Reality

SPEAKER_01 1:32

uh, why did you decide to actually write this book? But it's your first book, it's later in life, it's about dating. What prompted you to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Well, as you as you mentioned, I was married. I was married 30 years, we got an amicable divorce. So I started dating at 55, and I found that the pond for dating is more like a puddle for seniors because it's not like whenever we're in high school. Okay. And I did find my prince, but what prompted me to write the book was I my prince passed away. We were we were together 13 years and he passed away. I'm sorry. After that happened, my older daughter came to me and said, Mom, we want you to live with us. And I said, Well, no, I'm independent. And she said, No, no, no, we're gonna build a house and you'll have your own apartment. But we want you to be close to us. And so I live here. We this is a multi-generational house. I had my own apartment, I had my own bedroom, my own bathroom, my own living room. Okay, just a pocket door

Journals, Grief, And Finding The Stories

SPEAKER_00 2:35

away. So the long answer to your question is I was sitting in my living room after we'd moved in, uh and we both sold our houses to build this house, and I started thinking about my prince, how much I missed him. And I just said, you know, I had to go through a lot of frogs to find you. And that kind of triggered something in my brain. It happens, Natasha, that I journal, or I did journal during this time. And I happened to have found those journals whenever we were downsizing our houses to meld into one. And so I got those out and I started thinking, oh yeah, I'm gonna write about him. So I started writing the story and put it away. And next day, you know, I get another one. Anyway, 10 or 12 stories in, a friend of mine said, I I let her read it, and she said, you know, this is pretty funny. I I think people might enjoy this. Why don't you think about publishing it? And I never did think about doing that. It was like journaling, it was like getting something out of me. But that's what happened. That's what that was the triggering event. I was thinking about my prints, and I thought, I bet you people could benefit from some of these stories. I'm gonna share.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Huh, that's nice. Is there any funny story you can share with us?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Oh, only one,

The Barnes And Noble Hickey Date

SPEAKER_00 3:52

huh? Okay. Yeah. Well, all right. Well, there's one guy in here. I I divided them into tadpoles and frogs. Tadpoles are baby frogs, they're frogs in the making. And by the way, women can be frogs too. I'm sure I might have been the frog to some of these guys. But the the the tadpoles I didn't spend that much time with because I realized, you know, this is not going anywhere. But there was a guy named Hickey. I there it's not their real names, it's names, nicknames that I gave them. Uh, long story short, the way I would work at Natasha is we'd meet online and talk, uh, and then we'd start talking on the phone back whenever people talked on the phone. And then we'd arrange to meet. And I always wanted to meet at a Barnes and Noble, a public place, because I love to read, and I figured if it didn't work out, I could just walk, you know, get a book and go home. So he did not post a photo, but he said he looked like George Clooney's second cousin. And so I get to Barnes and Noble and I'm browsing the clearance table, and I'm thinking, I don't see George Clooney's cousin. I guess he decided not to come. But I did see a guy in self-improvement leaning against the wall. He had a cane. He did not look like George Clooney's cousin, but I thought, well, that can't be him because he would have told me he had a cane. And anyway, I'm I've got a book and I'm leaving, and he goes, Tori. I call myself Tory in the book, and I go, Oh, Hickey, and it was him. But here's what he looked like. He looked like a the love child between Andy Griffith and Alfred E. Newman from Mad Magazine, if you're familiar with that. And I had no problem with that. I just wish he would have been more honest.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Transparent. Yes, honest about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

You know, if he would have said, Hey, I look like a the love child between I would have known what I'm looking for, and it it probably would have worked out better. But it turns out, this was like four o'clock in the afternoon. He says, Can we go to dinner? I've been working all day. This is a Saturday. And I said, Well, sure. He said, There's a cafeteria in this complex. And I go, Okay, well, cafeteria. Okay. So we go through the line, and he has to get help with his tray because of his cane, of course. He gets one of everything. And at the time I was a college dean, and he just kept asking me all these questions about what do I do and how much money I make. Oh, geez. Yeah, exactly. And so I thought, you know, this is not gonna work out. Now, before we'd met up in person, he he had a very great sense of humor. And I always said, if you can make me laugh, I'm gonna really fall for you. But he wasn't real funny that afternoon. And so he says, Well, you're gonna pay, right? And I go, I said, Well, I I actually hadn't planned on it. I only have like five dollars. What do you mean? Don't you have a boatload of credit cards? And you know, my second wife cleaned me out, and I said, I'll be happy to buy your lunch. You know, I mean, he got one of everything, so why not? So I'm standing there in line trying to I I had my debit card and one credit card, and I'm trying to find my debit card. He just reaches back and pulls my hair up and gives me a big old hickey right here. Oh god. And I go, What are you what? What is going on with you? And the guy taking my money thought it was very funny, but I did not think that was funny at all. And I said, you know, this is not appropriate. Goodbye. So we that's one of my funny stories.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Oh god. He was a scammer, probably. I mean, he was trying to take your money as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

But that is so funny. What was the reaction of the readers who read the book, especially people who are like consider themselves seniors and they're in the dating scene?

Reader Reactions And Universal Lessons

SPEAKER_01 7:47

What was the kind of feedback that you got?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Well, I'm proud to say I've got all five-star reviews so far on Amazon. But uh, you know what I found out, Natasha, it's not just seniors that read this book. This is this is a universal and evergreen product uh topic. It everybody dates from like the time they're 13, whenever hormones start to rage, until we can't date anymore, I guess. And so the reaction has been, you know, it's very insightful. Thank you. There are lots of things that I reveal, lots of skeletons in the closet. So they appreciate the candor. They say to me, you know, I dated a guy just like him. And some of the men even say, you know, I dated a frog just like him, only it was a woman. But then also same-sex couples can read the book and say, hey, you know, there are frogs everywhere. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

So how did you decide on your prince?

Choosing The Prince Who Fit

SPEAKER_01 8:41

What was the thing that made you pick him?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Okay, it was a combination of things. First of all, he had a great sense of humor. Okay. Second of all, I was living in Chicago at the time. He was living in Rockford, Illinois, and that's only about an hour away. And I'd said on my profile, I'm a native Texan, I'm going back. If you know, if you love Chicago, good for you, but I'm not staying. And he said, Let's go. I grew up in Lubbock, Texas. Now, one of my favorite recording artists of all time is a guy named Buddy Hawley. He was a great influence on the Beatles, the Rolling Stones. He was tragically taken from us in a plane accident when he was only 22. But I just said, you know, I can't live without my Buddy Hawley records and or I guess CDs and Roy Orbison and Elvis Presley. And he said, Hey, guess what? I grew up with Buddy Hawley in Lubbock, Texas. Let's go. And by the way, how do I get to be on the dean's list? And it was just stuff like that that just merely made me laugh. On physically, on a scale of one to ten, most people might find him to be a five. Okay. I thought he was a ten. Okay. He was a ten in my eyes because he was so much fun. He was so sweet and kind. And it it didn't really take me long. The first time we did meet up in person, he brought me yellow roses, yellow rosa Texas. He brought me wine. He brought me he brought me a little box of candy and he brought his dog because I had a dog and we wanted our dogs to meet.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

So that's sweet. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Oh, well, sorry, sorry about your loss. So are you dating again now?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

No.

Dating Again Plus Scams And Money Talk

SPEAKER_00 10:25

You know. Okay, so I am going to go to something coming up this week called Nice to Meet. It's where you meet people, like-minded people of the same age group for dinner. And you you you pay your own way and stuff. And so if you happen to meet somebody that so so be it. But those are once a month. So I I think I'm going to try that. I did go to a dating service where they say they hook you up with like-minded people. It's quite pricey. They also look for people who are financially stable. And they also do a background check on you. But I I told her what my criteria, you know, I brought my book. I said, if you can find somebody for me, good luck. Because they guaranteed like eight or ten matches. And I just thought, I don't know how in the world that's gonna happen. I just had my doubts, and it was a lot of money to put out. And I really did like the lady running it. It's a very popular dating service uh nationwide. But I just thought, and by the way, this was recent, this was not, you know, five years ago when my prince passed away. This is just like a couple of months ago, and I just thought, I don't know how you're gonna be able to pull that off. I I don't get it, because you know, if if you read my book. Yeah, yeah. And you know, speaking of finance, one of my strongest tech takeaways is to stay atop of your financial situation because there are people looking for you to bail them out because they have a credit card debt, and I don't I don't want to bail anybody out.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, they're they're looking there's a lot of scammers in the dating scene, and some of them are not even real, from my

Self-Publishing, KDP, And IngramSpark

SPEAKER_01 12:13

understanding. They're like all right, let's switch gear a bit and talk about the publishing journey. So you self-published, correct? I did. Uh okay, and you used self-publishing service that took care of everything.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I guess, right, yeah, right. They're the ones that told me about Ingram Spark, about KDP, about they encouraged me to get an audiobook done, which I did. So it's all out there. The reason they they encouraged an audiobook is because sadly not many people read as much as we'd like. And a lot of people do commute, you know, to work. And so they like to listen to podcasts and and books and true crime stories and etc. So the audiobook is only six hours and 34 minutes. It's a pretty easy audiobook to read, to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

So and they did the audiobook for you, or did you do it yourself?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

No, you know what? I have a friend of mine who's I thought about narrating it myself because you know it's my my stories, but in my old age, sometimes my voice kind of cracks and stuff. So I I enlisted a friend of mine who's really good, and she's known me for 25 years, so she knows my sense of humor. She she knew my first husband and my second, you know, my prince. So she she knows me very well.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So interesting you call him a prince. Did you ever mention his name in the book or just the yes, card is his name? Okay, great.

Marketing Reality And Platform Strategy

SPEAKER_01 13:43

All right, so I was looking at your website, and you know, you and I had like offline discussions about marketing and stuff. You've you've been doing a lot and you know, impressed by all the efforts that you've put in. So for aspiring authors and authors who are also struggling with with marketing, what kind of advice and tips would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Well, the thing that I I think most authors think is that, and I thought it too, you know, I'm gonna write this book and everybody's gonna want to read it, and I'll just sit back and collect royalties. And it doesn't quite happen that way. You do have to work really hard to get it out there because the competition is so is so, and everything's based on algorithms too. Yeah. So so the more hits and likes and things like that that you can garner, the better off you're gonna be. Okay. And that's actually why I reached out to you too, because you seem to have nailed that down pretty, pretty well. Yeah. Because it, you know, I've been on podcasts, I've been on radio programs, uh, I've made talks, I I've taken out ads, and and still you pointed out stuff where I'm short, and I appreciate that by the way. Sometimes whenever you're so close to it, you can't, you know, you think, oh, wow, that's it's kind of an easy thing, but why didn't I see that? Well, it's because too close to it. But I am lucky, it is a very universal topic. It's it's like I said, it doesn't apply just to seniors, although seniors, you know, probably could I I wish I would have had this book whenever I started dating as a senior, but it it kind of applies to everybody. My grandson did the cartoon illustrations, he's he was 15 at the time. Oh wow, here's like an example. And he was not allowed to read the book, but I would describe the characters to him.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

And he would he would do it. That is fun. Yeah, it is fun.

unknown 16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

So it's like a family project. I like that. And you you told me that your granddaughter helped you create TikTok project, correct? Yeah. So how how is TikTok going on for you?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

You know, well, we we started it and we haven't finished it. And my granddaughter's now senior in high school, and she just signed to play softball for a D1 school. So she's gonna be going away to school next year. So I'm gonna have to think of something else. I I think I I've been looking at Facebook a lot. I think that would probably be my best bet. And I think that's something that you suggested as well. So I'm open to all, you know, I'm a baby boomer. I'm technologically challenged. My grandkids are not.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

No, I mean, you're doing great, honestly. Like I've I've you know, interviewed a lot of authors, but you're you're you're doing a lot compared to many. What do you think the thing that worked the most in your favor in terms of book sales from your marketing?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

What do I think worked best for me?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

The best. Yeah, in terms of the ROI return on investment.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Well, that's a great question. You know, I I'd like to say all the podcasts have worked, and they the podcasts do get a lot of views. I've noticed that. I mean, whenever the hosts send me the the link, I share it with all my my social media. I can't say that I've seen an uptick in sales, and that's why I was saying to you, it must be the source material. You know, maybe maybe people don't want to read about dating as a senior or dating in general. But so I've kind of beaten myself up about that. But I'm not gonna give up though. I think it's something worthy of mention, and you know, I don't mind sharing these stories.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, so for me, I I think the topic is actually important and people are looking for it, is just finding the right audience. Exactly. And that that is really the the challenge in many, in you know, authors like where can I find the readers? Where can I find the readers at this age, and uh and how can I reach them? So it's honestly a constant trial and error to sell books. I've been doing well on Substack. I love Substack a lot, and I think every author should be there, honestly. It's a great community, not only of writers who support others, but also readers, people from like all sorts of age groups. Actually, I think they're more on like middle age and up, you know, unlike other platforms. Substack is yeah, it's like Substack is my target audience, right? Yeah, yeah, Substack is like a serious audience of readers. And they're more interested in the written format than the visual format, like in places like TikTok. And for me, it took me a while to understand that each platform you have to treat it differently. So you just cannot take the same content and just place it on all platforms. They just it doesn't work this way. Each platform has its different audience, each platform people are expecting something different. So it's it's really is it a trial and error. So after this experience, are you planning to write another book?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Well, okay, yes, I am. All right, so on my website is an intake form for people that have their own stories, they can tell us their story.

Next Book Idea From Men’s View

SPEAKER_00 19:56

We'll keep it anonymous. But I also got the broad idea, I think I'd like to get the men's point of view. Okay. So I'm I'm starting to interview men I know that were married a long time and got divorced and dated women frogs or men frogs, whatever they dated. Okay. Um so I'm gathering up those stories now. Obviously, it can't be written in the first person because it didn't happen to me. So I'm kind of grappling with it's gonna be in third person. I'll be more of the omniscient narrator. So, but I'm kind of putting the cart before the horse there. I gotta gather the stories first, and then we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

So are people respond responding to your call to action? Are they sending stories?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

You know, I haven't done any wide right now. I'm just networking using people I know, and pretty soon I'll be asking for your advice on this. I'm gonna throw out the net and see how many people respond with their stories too. So but I want to do it from the man's point of view because, like I said, I've had men tell me, you know, there are more than frogs too. So frogs are everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

I mean, the way you can format it is like you're as as an investigative journalist, and this is basically the format is like I interviewed this person and this happened, and then I move. So, like, so that that's how I would formulate it. It's like you're the investigative journalist and you're digging out the stories, and then you're you're coming up with the with the thesis, I guess, and the conclusion after you've done your research.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

But exactly, because that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I'm telling their story from and actually what happens usually is that this book would help sell the first book. We call it like the backlist. And one way of I'm reading a book now called it's like how like the habits of the seven-figure authors, not six-figure authors, the seven-figure. One of the things that they keep doing is they see what they work, they double down on it. Another thing is that they keep writing. Like, okay, I did this, and the their new books help sell their backlist as well. Um, and that's also what I noticed with my books is like now, for example, I give people a short story for free, and they read it, and then like, oh, we love this, and then they go back and buy my novels. So there's a lot of tactics, think outside the box. Um, and it works, just have fun, you know, experiment and have fun. That's and then double down on whatever works and keep kind of a sheet of what's working. So look at your stats, see, like, oh, by the way, this post or this whatever worked, maybe that's what people are looking for. Like, so always just keep an eye on the analytics and double down on what's Networking. And that's one also the other things that they do. And they also keep like learning and investing in education and all of that. They speak, they do a lot of public speaking. Anyway, the author of that book came on my podcast. So we had a great discussion.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

So but what was that author's name?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Lisa Daly. I have not released that episode, but I I will soon. So speaking of books, I always, when I remember, I like to ask my guests about what they're reading or something that

Recent Reads Worth Recommending

SPEAKER_01 23:16

they read recently that they they recommend that you really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It's really good that you asked that because I've I've made friends with a lot of authors that I met at the National Publicity Summit, and I've I've been reading their books. And I just started your book, The Wyatt book. So I'll be reading that here.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

But anything you read lately, recently, or like a book that you highly recommend that like you cannot stop thinking about?

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, well, Cindy Watson's The The Art of Female Negotiation was wonderful. That's nice. Dr. Dean's book on it's called, oh, what's it called? It's really good. A bunch of little vignettes. It's about his life and what he's learned. And these are all nonfiction books, by the way. I haven't been I have a your book is going to be the first fiction book I've read in a while. Okay. Uh Dr. Pamela Price's book is really everybody who's thinking, every one of us dies, and her book is Getting Prepared, What You Need to Do to Prepare Yourself and Yam for what's going to happen to you. How do you, you know, what happens to your estate? You know, do you do you want to be buried or cremated? I mean, stuff that you think about, but you don't ever think to document or make it easy for your loved ones to follow through after you do die. So, like I said, your book is going to be the first fiction book written in a long time.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Well, I hope you enjoy it. All right. So be before we conclude, how can people reach you? How can people order your book? You know, it's now your time to shine

Where To Buy Plus Parkinson’s Donation

SPEAKER_01 24:49

for the shameless plug. So tell us how so tell us how can we reach you?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Well, they can go to my website, oh thefrogs.com. Okay. I like it. And order it there. They can go to Amazon and order it there. They can go to any bookstore and they'll order it for for you there. And by the way, I would like to say this: that 10% of all net profits from the sale of this book are going to be donated to the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research. Ed Parkinson's very worthy cause. So, yeah, I mean, the book is available and it's it's a fun read. It's what I've been told. And it was fun to write. I would also like to add one more thing that we were talking about when it comes to the discipline of writing, because

Writing Discipline Glue Butt To Chair

SPEAKER_00 25:36

you do have to be very disciplined. The the thing that I I encountered whenever I was writing this book is to make sure that I put my rear end in this seat and I sat down to write. And even if it was only a hundred, five hundred words that day, I had to do something every day to keep moving forward. Because what happens is you start living your life and you start making excuses. Oh, I I've got to go here and do that. I've got to dance with my grandkids, I've got to help my daughter, I've got to do blah, blah, blah. And pretty soon you've got a stack of papers here, and nothing's happened. Yeah. There's no progress made. And then you then you start thinking, why am I doing this? But for me, I was lucky I had those journals I was telling you about. So that's how I was able to remember some of their how they looked and what they wore and stuff and what they said, because it was in the journals. But that's what I would advise to any aspiring author is to sit down every single day and write something.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Somebody gave me this advice and I love it. It's called if you want to publish a book or buy the book, glue your butt to the chair. This is it. That's perfect. Exactly. That's it. That's the only advice I would give anyone is glue your butt to the chair, and that's it. And just do the work. Yeah. So this is great. So, Dr. Vaughn, thank you so much for your time. I I really enjoyed our conversation and I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for the very, of course, with this book and with the next book. And for anyone who's listening or watching, thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. And don't forget to check out Dr. Victoria's Vaughn book, Oh The Frogs. I kissed before I finally found my prince. Exactly. And your website is again oh the frogs.com. Oh thefrogs.com. Great title, by the way. All right, great. Thank you very much. And thank you everyone for watching or listening. And then until we meet again. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, Natasha Tonne. If

Final Thanks And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_01 27:56

today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time.