Smart Experiments To Sell Books

SPEAKER_00 0:05

The strategy is to figure out what is the you know most profitable way to sell books because that you can do so many things and they're not all going to work, and some of them will work better than others. So the key is to do a whole bunch of different things, figure out what works, and then take those things that do work and then just expand on them.

Meet Tyler Snur And His Trilogy

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. My name is Natasha Tines and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. I have with me Tyler Snur, who's a university student working towards his Bachelor of Arts in English. He launched the Jewels of Faith series as a 17-year-old high school student. And then The Sword of Sorinth is the second novel in this trilogy. So this action-packed series won't disappoint fans of fiction, fantasy, or adventure stories. Tyler lives with his parents, sister, and a dog in Ontario, Canada. So, Tyler, hi, nice to see you here, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Thank you for having me on the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Of course. Congrats on your success. And I'd like to start by asking you about, you know, when you first started, you were a teenager, 17. What made you actually do this? What was the spark that ignited this?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Uh well, I've always been a big reader. So I read a lot growing up. And I love fantasy books in particular. So my series is fantasy, and growing up, I was very into series like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson. So that's kind of what what sparked that joy of writing, and specifically writing a fantasy series.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Oh, great. So what was your writing routine? So let's say this book is it's pretty big. I mean, it's it's over 300 words, and you're in high school. So you you know, you're pretty busy preparing for college and all of that. So when did you write exactly?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I wrote pretty much every day after school.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

So I'd come home and I would write before I did my homework and all of that, just because I knew it was easier to write earlier in the day than late at night. And I pushed myself to finish an assignment, you know, at midnight, one o'clock in the morning if if the need be, but I wouldn't have been able to do that with my book. So I figured it's easier to get the book done early and then focus on schoolwork.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Oh wow. So to in order to

Writing Discipline As A Teen

SPEAKER_02 3:10

be able to do that as a high school student who's busy, who's, you know, maybe you want to party or go out with friends, it it requires a a certain level of of discipline and and mindset. So, how did you manage to talk to yourself into doing this and and develop this mindset and discipline?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Well, it was simple. Whenever something came up, you know, like going out with friends or going to the movies or or whatever, like I still did those things for sure, sort of at high school. But the question always was, would I rather make more progress on the book or not make progress on the book and you know, do those things, right? So I had obviously no problem doing it. Like if I had written that day and got a good chunk of the book done and I kind of was still on track, because that was that was my main focus, right? But if it wasn't like a toss-up between the two, then I always, you know, reminded myself that when the book was published, you know, I could spend more time with friends. When the book was published, I could go to the movies more or like fill in the blank, whatever it was. Um, it was always after the book is published, then I could focus more on that. But until the book is published, the book is the priority.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Okay. How long did it take you to finish it?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Five years.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Five years. So you started when you were 17 and you published it when you're 22?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Actually, it was published when I was 17, so I started writing it when I was around 12, 13.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Ah, wow. That's that's pretty young. Okay, so how did the idea for the book come to you?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

It wasn't a set, like a ha moment. I would say it was a combination of of all the books that I read growing up. This series slowly evolved. It actually started as a short story uh that I just wrote for fun one day in in elementary school when I was bored. And then, you know, as I got older and as I matured, that short story slowly grew and expanded and developed, and I added more characters and it and it turned into a full-size novel.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

What was your publishing journey like? Did you self-publish this? And if you did, how did you do that? And where did you learn how to self-publish?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

So I self-published on Amazon. The entire book is completely self-published. I learned everything either on my own or I outsourced to people who knew how to do you know that part of the publishing process. For example, a cover. I had nothing to do with the cover. A good friend of mine, actually, that I went to elementary school and high school with designed the cover.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And then my mom helped with the editing. So if if I didn't know how to do something, I either learned it myself, you know, like online classes or whatever, or I outsourced it.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Okay. And if you want to do this again, I understand, you know, you you want to continue doing that. Would you continue to self-publish, or are you trying to get an agent and go the traditional route?

SPEAKER_00 6:17

I like self-publishing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with traditional publishing, but you know, in in my own research, it really like they're two different paths, and you have to have two different goals. Like traditional publishing is very different from self-publishing, and it takes a different kind of author to go down that route. Personally, I think it takes a lot more patient author, which is not me, because you have to wait sometimes up to two, three years after sending your book to the publishing company to see it on a shelf. That would drive me nuts personally. So that is, you know, partially why I don't think I would ever go down the traditional publishing route.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

And so how did you market the book? And how are the sales for the book? And what are you doing to, you know, to keep people interested in the book and you know, and keep buying the book?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

So I do all kinds of marketing activities, podcasts like this interview right now. I do school visits in my local area. I do emails, I have an email list. I have a personality quiz on my website, which if you're listening and you want to check out snurstories.com to find out what character in the Jewels of Fate series you are, um, that'd be pretty cool. I have email, newsletter, social media. You can also follow me on all the big social medias, um, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. I'm on YouTube as well. So all kinds of stuff. So I don't focus on one thing. I spread myself across many, many

From Short Story To Novel

SPEAKER_00 7:55

different marketing methods.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

What was the most successful marketing method for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Most definitely podcasts.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Ah, podcasts. Why?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Because it's the one, it's the one marketing method that you know you're going to be introduced to people you haven't met yet. So social media, you're posting to the same people. Email, you're sending it out to the same people. I mean, those things can grow for sure, but podcasts and interviews like this is one of the only ways where you get automatically introduced to a new audience right away.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

So, how do you find the podcasts that you want to pitch to? I mean, I I have to say that I I get a lot of requests and pitches, and yours stood out for me, mostly because of the way you wrote your pitch and how you described the podcast itself and how the took how you took the time to listen to it and describe the episode. So, this for me showed that you're actually invested in it. And so just a tip for anyone listening who wants to be on a podcast, make sure to invest in it. But so, how how do you choose a podcast that you want to appear on?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Well, it happens, you know, after you do that research. So I was trying to find podcasts that are, you know, centered around my audience. So reading and writing, either audiences who really like books or audiences who want to write a book, because I find that audiences that want to write a book probably like reading as well. So it kind of goes together. So then what I do is I, you know, like I listen, like I investigate to make sure that, yeah, this is a podcast that, you know, I would want to be on, or I think would be a good fit, you know, that would be a good collaboration or partnership. And sometimes, you know, I'll do research and I'll decide, no, this one doesn't fit at all. And on the other hand, sometimes it'll be a podcast that's not directly related to reading or writing, but I think it'll be a great fit. Because maybe it's, you know, a bit more motivational based, you know, overcoming struggles, challenges, you know, that kind of thing. Or maybe it's more business-based, which, you know, writing is a business, so it kind of fits there too. Or maybe it's a teenage podcast because, you know, I was a teenager when I published my first book. So there's different angles. Obviously, the one that fits the most is reading and writing, but there's other ways that you can approach podcasts too.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Okay. So how many podcasts have you been on so far?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I'm gonna say close to 15 now.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Um, I don't know the exact number. I believe it's somewhere between 12 to 15.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

And how do you know that the audience actually listens? Do they interact with you directly? Or how do you know that this is successful? What you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 10:52

It's a gamble. You I mean, you don't

Amazon Self-Publishing And Outsourcing

SPEAKER_00 10:55

know for sure. You can always tell when you see a spike in sales, you know, after you do an interview or and after an interview gets released. But sometimes the podcast is live, meaning that as it's as you're talking to the host, audiences are already listening. Sometimes it's pre-recorded, uh, like this one. Sometimes it's you the host will record it, but then break it up into sections and then release, you know, on social media. So you could have a 20-minute interview, but then you know, for the next month, uh you'll have like two-minute sound bites almost. So there's there's different ways, and because it's so like like you never know for sure, you can only guess. Like you do an interview, you see spec in sales, you make the connection.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

So you you mentioned something interesting, which is the the business of writing. And you're already in college, you know, uh getting a degree in English English literature, I assume, or writing, and you're already monitoring the sales, you're self-publishing. So do you see yourself doing this full-time?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Uh interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

100%.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

I I like that you're you're you're young and you're optimistic about being a full-time writer because the older authors are a bit skeptical of of doing this, maybe because they're not savvy to online businesses or so. I wanna understand how do you think you can do this as a as a full-time career, and let's say in the future you wanna start a family, and how are you gonna sustain yourself from publishing books? I wanna learn from you.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

For sure. Well, it's it's really for me, it boils down to the fact that if I see other people doing it, then it's possible. So the fact that there are full-time authors, the fact that there are full-time self-published authors that are selling, you know, lots and lots of copies and they're able to sustain a lifestyle and and and sustain a family and all of that, just the fact that it's already been done by someone else before is proof that it is possible for anyone.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

And who are these these authors that you want to emulate, especially the self? We're not talking about the thiefing kings and the clean hoovers of the world. We're talking about self-published authors who so who who are the people that you're modeling or emulating?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Oh, there's so many. There's so many. I did a conference a few months ago, right before Christmas, and it was hosted by an author that I know, self-published author. Her name is April Cox. She's a children's book author, and she runs a children's book course, like how to publish a children's book. So if anyone is kind of doing children's books, I highly recommend you check her out. But her conference was all about, you know, how to make a full-time living, basically, by being a self-published author. And she brought in like so many different guests who are doing it and excelling in different ways. You know, some are great at interviews and podcasts and being on TV and that kind of thing. Others are great at email and email marketing, others are great at vendor fairs and that kind of thing. But all of these, all of the guests that she brought on are full-time self-published authors that have, you know, made it in a sense.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

So how are you gonna make it? What is what is your strategy? My strategy is I'm gonna see I'm gonna steal it.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Well, the strategy is to figure out what is the you know most profitable way to sell books because that you can do so many things and they're not all going to work, and some of them will work better than others. So the key is to do a whole bunch of different things, figure out what works, and then take those things that do work and then just expand on them. Put more time and energy and focus into that. So that's that's kind of how you so there's no like step one, step two, step three. It's more because it's different for every author, too.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah. So what has been working for you the most?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Like I said, podcasts and interviews, school visits is another big one.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So I just did a school visit last week and they did a 30-book order, which was very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Okay. So how how do you get them to accept you? So

Marketing Channels And Podcast Strategy

SPEAKER_02 16:15

you just email the school and tell them and what happens after that?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Sometimes I do cold outreach for schools for sure, but sometimes it's who you know at that school. So if I know someone who's a teacher there, or maybe the librarian or even the principal, or maybe I know someone who knows someone at a school, that's happened before too. So yeah, it's the the cold outreach can work for sure. You introducing yourself, like I said, to an audience that doesn't know you yet. But sometimes having someone in place who already knows the school and is already familiar with the school and can kind of help get you in, that's also highly recommended too.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

What about libraries?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah, libraries too. They it's a different process than schools because libraries, your book has to be approved. And a lot of times, I mean, the nice thing about libraries is once your book is improved, then it's not just one library usually, because they're all connected. So it usually gets sent out to like five libraries or ten libraries. So that's the good thing about libraries. But the process of getting approved and getting vetted, and they have a lot of different policies for screening books. So it's in my personal opinion, it's easier to get into a school than it is a library.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

So your generation, your what generation Z, I think, Gen Z is probably the masters of social media, especially with short form videos, like TikToks, TikTok, and Instagram reels and others. So that being said, what are you doing on social media? How are you marketing your book on social media and in which format?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

So I do more short form videos. I don't really do long form videos on my social media. I don't think I've ever done a video longer than like a minute, which is good because you know, uh, we have very, very short attention spans. And if you want to get someone's attention, you gotta keep your content fairly short. So I do videos. I also do like static posts, like and infographics or kind of how-tos, things like that. Like how to edit a novel, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Then I'll do personal updates about what's going on in my own personal writing journey. So that can be, you know, where I'm at in the book. That can be what book I'm reading for pleasure or inspiration. So at the beginning of the year, I always do a recap of all the books that I read in that previous year and which ones were my favorites. I do character drawings. So my illustrator sent me character drawings of each of the characters, and I post those on my social media along with quotes from the book.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So there's many, many different ways that you can market your a book on social media. The key thing is dealing with the algorithm, which is why I would say social media is like, don't invest all your time in book marketing on social media. It's a great tool, but it's not the best tool, just the way the algorithm works. Unfortunately, no matter how great your content is or how great your video is, some days the algorithm will only show your post to five or 10% of your followers, which can be very disheartening if you have, let's say, you know, 5,000, 10,000 followers and not all of them are seeing your stuff.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

The most active channel for you is what?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

My most active channel is Instagram because I put the most focus into Instagram for sure. Although I do a lot of crossover posting between Instagram and Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Have you ever tried Substack?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I've heard of it. I know authors who do use Substack.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I know it's more for newsletters and you know blog type content, which so I have a blog on my website that I know I post stuff on, more kind of how to use, and kind of that's where I expand into more detail. And I also have an email newsletter that I send out, which I mentioned before. So I feel like for me, Substack isn't necessary because I'm I'm pretty much doing that, just not using the platform of Substack.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

What do you use for your newsletter?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I use ConvertKit, which I highly recommend.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah, I use it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

How many subscribers do you have if if you can reveal that?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

I have a few hundred. I believe it's just under 400 right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

That's good. That's pretty good. And how do you get these subscribers?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

So I use my lead magnet on my website. So it's my personality quiz. So my personality quiz, which takes 30 seconds to do, it leads potential customers to my email. So the thought is if a potential customer is taking the time to do the quiz, which tells them what character they are in my series, then it like they would be a fit for my newsletter.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Wow. So how do you find the people that you outsource the work to? So you mentioned a cover, you mentioned, you know, you know, ask uh you mentioned an illustrator. How did you find this team of people that you work with?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So currently I only outsource to people I personally know. So I'm very lucky

Social Media Content And Algorithms

SPEAKER_00 21:50

to have very talented people working around me in very different ways, you know, doing things that like I 100% cannot do. Like I can't draw for the life of me. If I designed the cover of my own book, it would be stick figures and no one would want to see that. So I'm very lucky to have friends and family around me who are talented in these ways and are willing to help. I've personally never outsourced yet to someone that I didn't know. So it's always been people that I know and trust.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So you're in college now, correct?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

University.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

University, yeah. And so how do you divide your time between writing for your novel and doing your university work?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

So that was a challenge. So in my second year was leading up to the launch of my second book. So I did my second year of university, and then that summer I launched The Sword of Sorinth. And it was different than. When I launched The Jewels of Fate, because at the time I was in high school. So going from high school to university and kind of like how the commitments changed, it really had to change my approach to you know getting the book done while maintaining school. So, for example, high school, the schedule is always the same. The schedule never changes. It's always period one, period two, period three, period four, and then you have that the whole week. Whereas in university, you have different classes on different days. So my writing was more scattered in university because it would literally be when I would have time in between classes. So like I still maintained writing every day as best as I could. I wasn't perfect at it, but I still maintained a consistent writing schedule, but it wasn't at a consistent time, if that makes sense. So on Monday, it might have been nine o'clock in the morning, Tuesday it might have been three o'clock in the afternoon, Wednesday, seven o'clock at night, like all different times.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Okay. So you're you're gonna graduate soon, correct?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

I still have two more years.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Two more years. And what what is your plan for two more years? You're gonna continue doing what you're doing, or you're gonna continue so that is like that is your your plan is to live off publishing books.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Okay. That's that's that's pretty impressive. Okay. So you finished the second book, correct? Yes in the trilogy, and now you're working on the third book on the the trilogy, and when is the expected release?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Sometime in 2025, most likely spring, summer of 2025.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Okay. So you use Amazon for online orders. How do you get your books in the bookstores?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

So a lot of times it's door knocking. A lot of the stores that my book is in is because I went in the store, I pulled out my business card, I said, Hi, my name is Tyler Sner, I'm a local author. I'd love to, you know, have a discussion about potentially having my book here. And yeah, the thing about bookstores is they're by far the easiest way to promote your book because bookstore owners love supporting local authors. So they're always willing to give you a chance.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

So you go to independent bookstores, you don't go to the big ones like Barnes and Noble and stuff like that. Do you go?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

I do, but it's a different approach. So independent bookstores, it's door knocking, you go in, hand them a business card. 99% of the time, they're going to say yes. A lot of stores I found, they don't even have

Email List Growth With A Quiz

SPEAKER_00 25:35

like a vetting process. They're just like, Let me see the book. You hand it over. They're like, Yep, we'll put it on the shelf. And then it's a little different in big box retailers. They like to see how your book sells before they acquire it. So what a lot of them will do is they'll bring you in for a book signing where you're still, you know, selling the books on your own, but within the store and to their customers. So you set up a table in their store, and then their customers may or may not come over to your table and buy your book. And then they always still take a profit off of it. So it's usually a 45-55 split. So the author gets 45, the bookstore gets 55 because you're still selling on their property, basically.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Do you do you order the books yourself and and come with a box box filled with books and then how do you process the payment on the table if you're at a big book set?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

They do actually.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

This is how I I actually got into Kohl's, the nearby Kohl's in my uh local area was they brought me in for an event, it did really well, but they were the ones technically selling the book because although I had my stack with me that I ordered from Amazon, when a customer came and said I'd like to buy your book, I handed them the book and then they brought it to the front desk where the store clerk scanned it and then made the purchase.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

I see. Interesting. Wow, you're you're a big hustler. Good for you. And what kind of tips would you give to someone, let's say, your age, who wants to get started on this? And also for anyone who wants to hustle like you and live off selling books and live off the business of writing, whether it's selling books or selling courses or or or any other income-generating streams for authors.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

I would say for you know kids my age, like so. I mentioned before, if someone has done something, then that's proof that you can do. So let me be that proof to you. You know, sitting here, I'm 22 years old. If you're around my age and you're, you know, wanting to publish a book, you know, let me be that proof for you that it's possible. And

Schools Libraries And Bookstores

SPEAKER_00 28:05

because the and there's no better time than now, you know, when you're young and you know, especially, you know, in the Gen Zs, you know, they're more in tune with social media and all the techie things that are becoming more and more important in you know book marketing. So if if you understand that and you can get a grasp around that, then just run with it because it's it's so beneficial. And then I would say learn. Like even if you you're you don't know how to do something, learn from someone who does. Like I said, I I do all kinds of courses and seminars, and I learn from other authors, especially other authors who are making a full time off of writing and publishing, because that's what I that's what I want to do. So I want to learn from from those people. And there's so many, you know, great authors who have courses and you have programs that you can learn from.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

So what's in store for you besides publishing books?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I'm also a screenwriter.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

In terms of the business, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

I'm also a screenwriter, so I have a screenplay that I'm kind of pushing out to the world. Uh the books take more time and energy for sure, so that's kind of like priority one. And then the screenplay is a little bit further down on the priority list, but I would still, it's still something I'm very passionate about, and something I also wrote in high school for a class project. I also, yeah, so I do book writing, screenwriting. I want to kind of expand my series. So this is a fantasy series, and then once that's done, I kind of want to, you know, try something new. I don't know what yet. Could be, you know, young adult, it could be another fantasy series, but definitely kind of expanding my world building and and you know, characters and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

This is great. So, Tyler, how can people reach you? How can they get your books? How can they reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

For sure. So my books are available on Amazon. Uh just look up the Jewels of Fate or The Sword of Sorinth. And I'd also recommend going online on my website to take that quiz and find out what character you are in the series. I took the quiz myself and I was surprised at what character I got, and I was the one who built the quiz. So I would also say I'm on, like I mentioned, I'm on all the social medias Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube. So give me a follow. Would love to connect with you there.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Great. Thank you, Tyler. Any final words of of wisdom or advice before we conclude?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, for sure. I the the biggest thing that I kept telling myself, you know, as I pursued this was you're never too young to do what you want. And I think a lot of times we put so many labels and barriers on ourselves that tell us why we can't

Mindset Advice And Closing

SPEAKER_00 31:00

do something. And instead, I think that we should flip that to say why we can do something. So my point is like if if you want to write a book, really there's nothing stopping you. Like, it is so possible and it is so worth it, and it is so worth pursuing.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I love I love the mindset, Tyler. I needed to hear it as well. Thank you very much. And and thank you for joining me today. And for everyone or anyone who's who's uh listening or watching, thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and until we meet again. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, Natasha Time. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time, happy reading, happy writing.