Welcome And Meet Melinda

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Just making sure that every single time I'm in front of somebody new, they know that I have a book, and this was a great book, and they should buy it in. And just talking with them about it, that's really been my greatest marketing.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. My name is Natasha Tines, and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. Alright, so today we have with us author Melinda Lee. Let me make sure I pronounce your name correctly. Melinda Lee Schmidt. Do you want to say Melinda Lee or Melinda Lee Schmidt?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Either one. Melinda Lee Schmidt is my website, Melinda Lee is my book. So either way.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Alright, so we're gonna go with Melinda Lee Schmidt, who's an adventurous soul and who believes in the power of hugs. It's her life mission to create world where everyone feels a sense of worthiness and belonging. She's a certified practitioner of hearing touch for animals and bear coach certified. She wrote her WMY, Rebel Hugger, as a love letter to herself and of all humanity. She currently resides in Atlanta, Georgia with her two teenage boys, two mischievous cats, and one exasperated how you say that name. That's right. All right, okay, Melinda. So I mean, I think the first question is gonna be about hugs. Sure. So you spent a whole year hugging like random people, or how how did this experiment work if you could tell me

The One Year Hug Challenge

SPEAKER_00 2:05

about first the idea and then what happened and then the malware?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, absolutely. In 2011, I uh was looking for something to do with some of my spare time. My young boys were starting to get a little older, and I had been thinking about blogging when this idea hit me to start hugging people because I was missing hugs having moved a couple states away from my family. And I thought if I'm missing hugs, maybe other people are too. So I set out to do a year of hugs. Okay. And that during that year, I hugged pretty much everybody that I encountered. And so it was not some creepy thing. Like I didn't just randomly hug people. I would always ask permission first and then give them a hug. And then at the end of the day, I would blog about it. And that's how my year of hugs was how my year of hugs went. And the memoir came about because at the end of my year of hugs, I was like, man, this is gonna be my life mission. This is going to be the thing that I do for the rest of my life. I don't know what's gonna come of it, but it's gonna be amazing. And as soon as the year was over, I actually found myself in a really deep depression. And I found myself wanting to hide from humanity instead of wanting to continue to hug them.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Sorry to hear that. We'll we'll get to that, but I want to ask if it's about the people that you hugged were like random people that you saw like grocery store. And and how did you pick the person to hug? Was it the energy?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

It was more up, it was less about the energy and more about their presence to me, like their closeness to me. So it might have been like the grocery store clerk. And so the hug was just a way to say thank you for, you know, ringing up my groceries, or it might be just the person standing in line in front of me, and we struck up a conversation. And at the end of the conversation, I would just ask for the hug.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

And tell me some of the people's reactions. Were you ever rebuffed somebody saying, No, I don't do that? How did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, out of thousands of people that I hugged that year, there was probably only a handful that said no. And the no's were always respectful. And it was and no explanation given. It was just kind of no, thank you. So the most of them, most of the reactions were this very skeptical look. Like they wouldn't say anything, it would except at first they would just kind of like give me that side eye. Like, why would you be asking me that? That's kind of weird, right? And then I would kind of like just open up my energy to show my vulnerability and my that I really was asking them for a hug. And usually at that point, there they would be like, okay, you know, because the curiosity kind of took over. And then after I gave them a hug, the reaction afterwards ranged from just pure joy to laughter to tears to to just uh okay, we're just gonna go on with our days.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

And did anyone like, has anyone been kind of aggressive and said, like, gave you this look that you're crazy or something like that, or said something offensive to you, or not during my year of hugs.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I not anybody, not any of the strangers that I was hugging. Though I I take it back. There was one time when somebody was really offended because apparently she had said no to me once before and I hadn't remembered. And so she was like, You've already asked me that, you know. So, but really, that was it.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Why do you think people would say no? Like people who actually refuse a hug, what what do you think is going on with with their lives, with their psyche, with their I'm just curious from your experience. Yeah. Have you ever thought about the people who refuse the hug, if refuse the free hug?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, I've definitely thought about that. And I know that there have been times in my life where I just don't want to, I just don't want anybody in my energy, right? Like I just to want to kind of be left alone. And so I imagine that some of them, it was just kind of one of those. Like, I just want to be left alone. But I do think that there are other times when people might have some traumas or something that the hug could actually trigger, in which case the no comes from not wanting to be triggered and or wanting to just express their own boundaries and be empowered in expressing their own boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

And how did you feel after hugging them?

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Always my heart always felt like it just grew. Like, which is why at the end of the year, like I just expected it to be just magical, I guess. Because every time I hugged somebody, it was just like profound, and all of the good feeling hormones would be kind of going through my body, and I would just feel so connected to not only that person, but really all of humanity.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

And why would you think hugging uh strangers was what you're looking for rather than like your family members, your children, all of that? I mean, I guess you can always hug your children every single day, you know. Teenagers might complain and fuss, but you know, it's like why did you seek uh strangers to get that sort of warmth?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

So it was really from the perspective of believing in humanity, right? So it we have such disconnect between us, and there's so much tension between humans, especially when we think differently or we look differently or we act differently. And I just had this like I've always believed that we're all just good and kind and we're all basically the same, just looking for love and wanting to be loved and wanting to love. And it was my way of like proving that no matter who we are, love connects us.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Did you lose your faith in humanity after this? Or did your humanity like

Consent, Rejection, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 8:50

did like you reinforce your faith in humanity? What was the conclusion?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

I lost my faith in humanity shortly after it happened. Well ultimately, and I'll I can explain that in a minute, but ultimately in the end, it restored my faith in me, which was the biggest piece that was missing. And once I restored my faith in me, I felt connected and that restored my faith in humanity again. But after it was over, when I fell into that depression, I began to see all of the awful qualities that humans did.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Let's talk about this. So why would you why do you think that happened? Is it because you missed the hug? Or why do you think you fell into depression after a year of loving? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

I think it was because I was tired. Because I was giving love from an empty cup because I hadn't given that love to myself yet first. And it needed to have been given to myself first. And without having it here, without having it for myself, by the end of the year, I was just completely depleted. I had nothing left to give because I hadn't allowed myself to receive. Like when you don't have the love for yourself, it's really difficult to believe. It was for me, it was really difficult to believe that I was worthy of that love too. I felt like it was transactional. So as long as I was out there hugging others, then of course I was worthy of love because I'm out there doing this thing for others. So that means that I deserve it in return. But it doesn't quite work that way. It does, but it has to come from here first. Like I had to find it for myself first. And then once I found it for myself, the act of loving and the act of hugging becomes the an expression from my overflowing cup. And then I don't get depleted at that point. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, but why do you think you were depleted when you were giving those hugs?

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Because I was seeking the validation and I was seeking that love during that year. I was seeking it and I was looking for somebody to validate me, and nobody was doing it because it wasn't their job to do it. It was mine to give to myself.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

So what is the core theme of your memoir? Like you documented journey. So what what is the conclusion?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

The core theme is that humans are kind and good, and that humanity begins with you. It begins with love of the self. And from that love of the self, it it just blooms and blossoms and uh grows.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

And oh, I'm hoping you're you're out of that depression phase. And yes, that's good, that's good to hear. And we we've all been there. But if what do you think helped you get out of it?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Well, it was a path of discovering my own worthiness, and that path led me to see that the relationships that I was in at the time, that time in my life were not very supportive to me. And so the relationships that I was in had a tendency to keep me feeling invalidated and to keep me feeling not

When Giving Love Becomes Depleting

SPEAKER_01 13:15

worthy. And so I removed myself from some of those relationships. And then I went on another hugging trip. It was a cross-country hugging trip where I spent a month going around the country staying with the very people that I was hugging. Half of them were strangers, half of them were people that I knew. And during that time, I was really, I set this very intentional curiosity to notice how other people were relating to each other because I had a feeling at that point that other people's relationships were probably healthier than the ones that I was in. And so as I was going across the country and saw how other people related to each other, I saw that how they expressed their own sense of worthiness. And so I learned a lot from other people during that trip. And by the time I returned home, I knew that I needed to get divorced and I knew that I needed to make some changes in my life. And over the course of making those changes, I've become the person that I always knew that I could be, and one that is worthy of love and one that loves herself every day.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

So I'm gonna go to your memoir, and the title is The Rebel Hugger, and it says a cross-country journey to self-love, one hug at a time. So that the memoir was after you got out of the year of depression and went into across hungry. So you had one year of hugging, then got into a year of depression, then you went across country, continuing hugging people, right? Yes, that's correct. Okay. So where did you go? You know, you did cross-country. Where did you go across America? What are the the cities and towns that you want to?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, so I started in Atlanta, which is where I currently live, and I traveled through Alabama and New Orleans, across Texas. I got to go to Albuquerque during their balloon fiesta. So I got to experience that, which was a bucket list item of mine. I was very excited. I traveled up California all the way up into Washington State and across to Vancouver. Oh wow. Down through Idaho and then across Colorado, over to Chicago, and then back down through West Virginia, and I ended in Raleigh, North Carolina, which is where my original year of hugs had happened.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

All right. So I want to talk a bit about the book. So the the the cover design is gorgeous. I might have to say that is. Thank you. And so how was your publishing journey? Did you self-publish, get a publisher, and if you can just walk us through this?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, I self-published, and because it was my first book and the only type of writing that I'd really done up until that point was blogging, which is very different from writing a book. I hired a book coach. And so the book coach helped me through every single iteration of the book. And then she also helped to edit and do all of the different editing. And she really walked me through the entire process. So it was self-published with the help of Maggie with unsettling books. And how did you find your book codes? She was one of the people that I met when I was on the cross-country trip. It was very serendipitous. Uh, she's she's like one of the people that you hug. She is one of the people that I hugged on the trip. When I stayed in New Orleans, or when I was passing through New Orleans, a friend of mine that was there said, Have you ever met Maggie? If you're thinking about writing a book, you should talk with her. And so she connected me with her. And so we just went out to dinner when I was in Colorado. And so she was at the back of my mind when I finished the trip and started writing the book. And so she was who

Cross-Country Hugs And Big Life Changes

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I used.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

And so how are you marketing the book now? You know, it's one of the things, the hardest thing for a self-published author, and even like traditionally published author, is marketing. Yeah. You know, I know we're talking on a podcast, and that's becoming like popular a lot these days where people go on podcast tours. But I'm curious, what have you been doing to market your book?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

A little bit of not really everything, but a little bit of a little bit here and a little bit there. So what I've done is I've done two, at least two different three book signings, one of which was a book signing with a it was kind of a combination of a book signing with workshop. Okay. Which was really cool. That was a really cool event. And then the other two were just book signings. I had my book launch. I have done newsletters. I have a Substack. I've been doing a lot of the podcasts. That's been my primary marketing at this point, has been the podcasts, but also just talking about it when I'm with people.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

And I'm curious about Substack, because you mentioned Substack. And it's lately been exploding, and a number of authors are transitioning there. How has you been experienced, you know, writing there and promoting your work?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

I haven't put as much of my energy and attention there. It was more before I published the book. I had been spending a lot more time there, and I loved it then. That was a couple of years ago, maybe two years ago. And I loved it then because it reminded me of what blogging was like back in 2010. Right. So that was really fun and I liked the community aspect of it. When I've been on lately, it's felt a little bit more social media rather than the blogging style. So I think I have to just go in and play a little bit more with it.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah. So in in terms of all these marketing efforts, which worked the best in terms of ROI in, you know, if if you do an analysis, talking to people.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Just making sure that every single time I'm in front of somebody new, they know that I have a book and this was a great book and they should buy it. And and just talking with them about it, that's really been my greatest marketing.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

You reminded me of the story once I went to a book festival. There was a shuttle that takes people from one location to the book festival. And I was on the shuttle and I chatted with a random woman. I told them, and an author, I just uh, you know, just she was sitting next to me on the bus. She's like, Yeah, really, what's your name? She pulled her phone, got her Amazon app, and bought the books right in front of me. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what happens. Yeah. Yeah, so you talk to people, they they pull out their phone, the Amazon, and then they do it right then and there. So, in in terms of KDP and figuring out all the Amazon stuff, how did you figure out all that and the formatting? And I'm just curious about your your journey for anyone who wants to self-publish their book. How did you teach yourself all of that?

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I didn't. Okay. Maggie from Unsettling Books, I highly recommend her to anybody that is looking for that little bit of help. She walked me through the whole process and she basically did the process for me as a part of the package. So I really paid for help. And I knew from my own personal sanity time efforts that that was the right decision for me. So for anybody that has the means to do that, I highly recommend her.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Oh, cool. I'm looking at her stuff right now. Okay. So all right. What about the covered design?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

So I feel really proud of that because she has a designer that she was going to use. I had already mocked up something that was very much the cover that you see now. And her cover designer loved it and just tweaked a couple of things. So that

Self-Publishing The Rebel Hugger

SPEAKER_01 21:40

was mostly my design.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Oh, nice. And I when I looked at your website as well, I noticed that you do your own coaching. Yes. And is that based on what you discovered through your journey? And how does the book relate to the coaching?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah, it really does come down to, you know, I I learned so many things about, I learned so many tools and different, I was filled with so much wisdom in finding that self-love that I really wanted to impart that on people and also be able to help other people who are struggling with that same journey of not feeling like they fit in or feeling like they aren't valued unless it's transactional or, you know, just not believing in themselves or and I wanted to help, especially women, to find that in for themselves, mostly because I really believe that women will change the world.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

When we are empowered. Yeah. And how do how do you get clients for your coaching business? Great question.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

That is something that is an ever-evolving uh discovery that I'm still working on.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I think that's that's the hardest part, at least for me, when when you start your own business is is client acquisition. And there's some people who are really good at it, and but it takes, I think, a lot of of years of figuring out what the system works for. So what does the future hold for you in terms of writing? Do you plan to do something in addition to this? Or what what the are you gonna go another hugging tour? Like what is what is your future plans?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I'm not really sure. Right now I'm really enjoying the unknown. And I'm really enjoying the fact that in the unknown anything is possible. I think that I might do another hug journey at some point, and if I do, that will definitely be another book. But right now I'm enjoying life.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

That's nice. How did your children feel about their mom? Especially the teenagers. I have three kids. I'm just three kids. About their their mom going and hugging random, random people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So when I first did it, my youngest was a year old and my oldest was four. So they were really young. So this is the only way they know me to be. So even when I wrote the book and I published the book and I told them that I was on podcasts, you know, doing all of these, talking about hugging. And when I asked them what they thought about it all, they were like, okay. Like it doesn't even register for them because it's just what they know.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

What were they when you were hugging people? Like when you were at the grocery store? They were they were with me, yep. Okay. And they were really cute.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Like my four-year-old, he's very much an introvert, very introverted. And so he bit he at one point was just like, I don't have to hug them, do I? And I was like, No, you are absolutely do not have to hug them. But then there was this one day that he just we were in the parking lot of a Kroger, a Target, and the sun was just setting. So it was kind of that eerie time of day when the light is just, you can't quite see well, but it's not quite dark yet, and your eyes are adjusting. And this guy was walking over towards me. And I was like, I don't, I don't think I could do the hug right now. Like, this is not the time, you know? And he walked over and he was looking for handouts. He was unhoused. And I was like, you know what?

Marketing That Starts With Conversation

SPEAKER_01 25:35

I don't have any money on me right now, but I do have a hug. And I did end up giving him a hug. And he walks away, and my four-year-old looked up at me and he's like tugging on my shirt and he goes, Mom, can I give him a hug? And I was like, but you know, initially, like the mother instinct kicks in, and I'm like, Can I let him do that? I don't know. But I was like, I just hugged the man. He was fine. This is probably gonna be really amazing. And so I was like, sure. So we called him back over and my son gave him a hug, and it was this really, really special, special moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Do you have that in the book? I did not have that in the book.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

No, that will be for another for one of the other books.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Oh yeah. Do you think the fact that you were like a woman and a mom made people more likely to trust you and hug you? Like if you were a man, like randomly going to people asking like woman for a hug, it would be they won't get the same reception.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, so I do think I do know that I had privilege with my the way that I look, the fact that I was a mom. Like I know that all of that played a factor. I have no doubts about that. That being said, I really was inspired to do this in the first place because of my dad. Because growing up, my dad was always a hugger, and he would hug random people at like in during times that you wouldn't really expect. And not just other people, but like he was such a big hugger of other guys. So that's just who he was and what he did. So he was my inspiration, actually.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Oh, that's nice. Did he read the book?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Okay, that's nice. All right. So usually before I conclude, I like to, I mean, sometimes what I remember, to ask to ask the guests about books that they're currently reading or that they write like recommending. You know, we're coming at the holiday season and people buy books and gift them. What what what kind of books you would want a gift if you know I give you like a Barnes and Noble gift card and I tell you buy books that would you just wrap and put under the tree if if you can pick those books that you want a gift.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah. So my number one would be Untamed by Glenn and Doyle. I read it. Good. Yes. I actually have the cheetah on my arm from the forward. Yeah. Okay. So that was very impactful for me. Other books. The Tao of Pooh is a really great book to give because it's just done really

Coaching, Book Picks, And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 28:30

well. And that was made a pretty big impact in my life. Right now I'm reading, I can't think of the name of it, and I won't hold up our podcast for me to like to think of the name of it. But Untamed is Untamed is definitely the number one for me. Yeah. And any of the Brene Brown books.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Ah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, how do you feel about like some of the books by Mel Robbins or like Let Them? Which I'd loved Let Them. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was a great one. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because that's kind of created a whole movement as well. Yeah. Alright. Great. So this has been wonderful, Melinda. And I'm glad that you did that. You gave people hugs. You published your you wrote about your experience and published it. And you know, gave us a glimpse of humanity. Humanity really is good, people.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Like we're we are so much closer than we are, like apart.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Well, that's that's good to know. Well, so thank thank you for joining me today. And how can people reach you and get your book? What's the best place to reach you? How can they find you?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah. You can go to my website, melindaleeschmidt.com. And my book is on Amazon and Barnes Noble and any of the places online where books can be found.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Excellent. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. And for anyone who's listening or watching, thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. And until we meet again. Thank you so much, Natasha. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, Natasha Tant. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time.