Opening And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:04

If a person comes to you and says, you know, I lost my mother and my I and I lost a pregnancy in the same year, I mean, if people come to you and they tell you kind of what the story is, and I think you just got to know, are you gonna be able to handle that? Because if it's something that for you is gonna be, you know, kind of triggering and upsetting, that might not be the best client for you. I really find that the more you can just practice your listening skills so that you can be engaged, that you're not kind of thinking about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. My name is Natasha Tines, and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journal. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. We have with us today Dr. Amanda Edgar, who's an award-winning author, ghostwriter, book coach, and the founder of Page and Podium Press. She is the co-author of the book Summer of 2020: George Floyd and the Resurgence of Black Lives Matter movement. Amanda has authored two nationally award-winning books and ghostwritten many more. Amanda, hi! So nice to meet you, and I'm so excited to chat with you, especially since you're a fellow ghostwriter, so we have a lot in common to discuss. So, first, Amanda, if you can tell us, we can start with uh with your book. If you can tell us a bit about your book, how was the publishing process and how it's doing now with all the politics in this country these days?

Inside The 2020 BLM Follow-Up Book

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, absolutely. So, my co-author Andre E. Johnson and I had written a Black Lives Matter book that came out in 2018 called The Struggle Over Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. So, in the summer of 2020, when George Floyd was murdered, people took to the streets. We really wanted to do a follow-up. So, what we did was we focused on speaking to the actual people who were in the streets. So, seasoned activists all the way to so many people that came out for the very first time, their very first march or protest or demonstration, just to kind of see what were they thinking about, what were their goals, what brought them out. So, you know, we we've been working on that for years, clearly. We started during the summer of 2020. So as we moved through the publishing process, we worked with University of Mississippi Press on this book. I found them to be excellent. All of the small presses, university presses and other smaller presses, I have always found to be so intimate, and you really get the sense that they care about are invested in your book. So, other than the fact that all publishing takes a really long time, um, we had a really great experience. And, you know, one of the things I talk about a lot in terms of, you know, how is the book doing? When you publish with a traditional publisher, you often don't know. I really have no idea how many copies we have sold. But what I do know is that both Andre and I will hear from people all the time saying, oh my gosh, this was, you know, so informative. It changed how I thought about things. We've been invited to several interviews. We were invited to, you know, lead different kinds of panels at different conferences that were related to the topic. So I always try to kind of think about how the book is doing in terms of what kinds of opportunities are you seeing from it. And really, we have seen a lot of opportunity and a lot of really, really great chances to make a difference in the areas that we want to make a difference in.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Great. So, okay, how was it received, the book? What was the reaction to the book? Just curious, how was it received?

Reception, Backlash, And Lasting Impact

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, you know, anytime you're doing something that is controversial, I don't think that saying Black Lives Matter should be controversial, but it is. You are gonna hear people that are gonna come at you and you know have things to say. Interestingly, I most often hear the kind of negative feedback on my YouTube channel. They'll kind of mention publishing the book, usually as an illustration of the publishing process. And I find that, you know, people will have to say, Oh, why are you being woke when we're trying to talk about publishing? But really, I did not hear much in terms of, you know, reviews, uh, either editorial, you know, professional reviews or people's reviews, you know, on Amazon and other places that was negative. Really, most of the time, what we heard was this is really accessible. We're so glad to have, you know, documented all of these people's voices, people find it helpful. If you think about the summer of 2020, none of us knew what was going on. We're in the middle of the pandemic. And at that time, really, we didn't even know that you could be outside and be relatively safer. It still was this kind of if you're in proximity to people, are you in danger of getting COVID? Are you in danger of dying? So one of the things that we do hear a lot is when people are reading the book now. It's sort of this strange flashback to this time that I think a lot of us blocked out because it was pretty awful.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

I did, yeah. Okay, so so now you're also a ghostwriter, correct? And you also have your own business. So do you do the ghostwriting through your business? How does this work? And for anyone who's listening or watching and doesn't really know what a ghostwriter is, if you can also explain that, that would be very helpful.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Absolutely. Yeah, I have been ghostwriting actually well before we even thought about this book. But ghostwriting really is essentially if you are not a writer, but you have a great idea for a book, you can go to a ghostwriter. We will interview you, get all that information from you. Often with, I only work with nonfiction. So often we'll be gathering, you know, research studies and other kinds of data that you want to incorporate. And then we'll just go through and write the book for you. So different ghostwriters do this in different ways. Our process is very collaborative, very hands-on. We want the author to really feel as close to writing the book as you can be without being the actual person who is writing the book. But anyway, yeah, that's that is what ghostwriting is. Really, I don't do much ghostwriting myself personally anymore. My company is big enough that I'm able to find writers, have writers kind of on my bench who are a better fit really for each individual book than I ever could be, you know, for all of those different types of titles. But we mostly work with memoir and we're mostly helping people really pull that story out of themselves, make meaning of, you know, what their life experiences were, and then typically write a book that is inspiring, that's gonna move people, that's gonna help people kind of through difficult times in their life, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

And the book is it commercial or is it more of a legacy book, you know, for friends and family? So what kind of books do you do you produce?

SPEAKER_01 7:11

I'd say 85% of the books we do are commercial. They are intended to either we help people get traditional book deals, which we do pretty often, or you know, they're wanting to do a hybrid or a self-publishing. That's typically if you're a business owner and your memoir, your kind of life story folds into your business. So life coaches, this is often the case, therapists, motivational speakers. We work with a lot of those folks. So we're we're just working with you to make sure that story is amplified, make sure that it's uplifting to your audience. We do some legacy books that are, you know, for friends and family. I find those really rewarding too. But I find that most of the time who we're working with are people who are really ambitious, wanting to really kind of skyrocket their career by having a book, having the credibility of having a book.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So you do both. So you provide the content and also help them publish, correct? So there's two services. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yep, absolutely. Our basic ghostwriting, actually, we have two basic ghostwriting packages. One is a little bit smaller if you're dipping your toe in. That is only for self-publishing, and that comes with all the ghostwritten manuscript. But then we also format it for you, have the cover designed, et cetera. So that at the end of that package, folks are ready to just go on Amazon, self-publish that book. But we also are larger package, folks can choose from either that self-publishing pack. They can publish with Page and Podium. We are a hybrid press, or we also will help people pitch to agents or publishers, whatever makes sense for their goals and the book itself.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

I see. And you only publish nonfiction.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yes, only nonfiction. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

So how how do you find your clients? I'm just curious. Oh, yeah.

What Ghostwriting Really Involves

SPEAKER_01 8:52

How do you find your clients? It used to be that, you know, I was kind of pounding the pavement and I would be kind of on LinkedIn sending messages. Really, now most of the time people find us. So I have a YouTube channel that we, you know, we put out a video every week. So we get a lot of people that follow from there. I find that, you know, there's enough kind of word of mouth among the type of people I work with that a lot of times I think, you know, somebody will say in a mastermind, Oh, I think I'm gonna write a book. And somebody that I've worked with or that I know will toss my name out there, the press's name out there. So it's usually pretty organic at this point, but there was definitely a point in my ghostwriting career where it was kind of like, okay, I've got to go to all the networking conventions, I gotta make sure I'm meeting all the people, gotta be on LinkedIn. Yeah. So I like this better.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

So in terms of in terms of let's say when you were trying to promote your business, what worked the most on social media? Let's start with social media. What worked the most for you?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Oh, that's a great question. So we actually did not, well, I should say, I'm when I'm saying we, I'm referring to the company. For a long time I was just freelancing. So I did not have any social media, professional social media at all when I was just freelancing. That really was not until I started hiring a team. I am not a person who's really big personally on social media. I knew from the beginning I did not want anything that was gonna make me have to be tied to Instagram all day. Okay. But really, I have I think it depends so much on your personality and what you like. And I work with ghostwriters. I have a coaching, kind of a coaching side business where I help ghostwriters get their businesses going or build up their marketing, that sort of thing. For me, I really like just talking like we're doing. I just really like to be able to talk and share things I've been thinking about and teach. So for me, longer form YouTube, essentially a video podcast, that's the best format for me. I like doing it, and I think people can kind of feel when your social media is something you like doing it, they want to engage in that. We have other social media. I think people look to see if you have Facebook, you know, to see if you're a credible company, but really we don't lean into that so much. But I've seen people use all different types of social media and been successful at it.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

So, what tips would you give to someone who wants to become a ghostwriter? What would you tell them?

Clients, Genres, And Publishing Paths

SPEAKER_01 11:23

I would say that you should get some support because there is more business to it than I think a lot of people think. It's it's always kind of chicken or the egg, right? Because you've got to get started and you've got to get a project under your belt to make sure you even like doing it. Some people don't, especially I think if you're a writer and you're really drawn to writing, because you get to get your creativity out there and you get to get your ideas out and you know, kind of shaping the voice of your piece. Ghostwriting might not be a great fit because, at least the way that I approach ghostwriting, I believe that it should be the client's voice, not mine. The client's voice, not any of my writers. I believe that it should be the client's ideas. I work really, really hard and train my writers as well to not put ideas or words into our clients' mouths. We really want to make sure that we understand what they are trying to say. And of course, you have to make sure that you're following the client's vision, even if you don't necessarily think that would be the absolute best way to do it, right? So I always think of it as finding a way to take the client's vision and match that somewhere in the middle with what the industry will expect. But that's not always what the result is not always what I would personally have done if I were the client. So anyway, I think the first step is you've got to get some projects under your belt, make sure that you even like doing the ghostwriting process. And then second, I think you've got to get some business support of some kind, just because you've got to get your LLC set up. You've got to make sure that you've got all your tax compliant stuff. It's really hard to know when to start hiring a team, how to hire a team. So I think it's pretty crucial that you've got, whether it's a group program, a one-on-one coach, or even, you know, friends and family who have businesses.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Okay. So how long does it take you to finish the project? Do you hire one writer or two writers for each project?

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Oh, that's such a good question. Um, our two standard packages. The first one, uh, the kind of smaller one, is a six-month project. Again, that includes your cover design and interior layout. So some of the portion of that six months is doing the design stuff. Our larger package, we ask people to expect about 10 months. That is for a full-length ghostwritten book, plus, again, either a book proposal if you're pitching traditionally, all that design stuff, or going through the actual production process with page and podium. For the way that our company is set up, you have a main writer, but then I'm the managing editor. So everything that is going out to clients, I'm making a pass on it. Editing, cleaning up. Sometimes I'll send it back to the writer if I think that you know we need to make some changes before it goes to the client. But every project has one writer, and then I'm always heavily involved as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

So every writer has six months to finish a book, pretty much. They don't really have six months, though.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

In the same, and this is actually, I'm glad you asked that. This is so important for ghostwriters to know, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

The first couple months is usually the development part. So that's where you're talking to the client, getting all the ideas, making the outline. It's really only we do about 3,000 words a week, is what we guarantee to our clients. So if you think about a 60,000-word book, that's kind of our larger package is 60,000 words, you got about 20 weeks. The smaller package is 30,000 words, you got about 10. After that, it's all the polishing, it's the design stuff. We always do a copy edit and a cold eye proofread separate from the actual writing. Plus, of course, the client's got to get in there when the whole book is done. Look through it, make sure the flow is good, the structure's good. So the writer never has as long as they think. And we're really clear when we hire people. Of course, you know, we have a standard contract with a timeline in it, so the writer knows what's expected. But it is that is kind of deceptive. You don't have that whole project period just to draft.

Marketing That Feels Natural

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, that's actually one of the things that I found hard being a ghostwriter, is you really have a fast turnaround. So sometimes I would get six weeks. And I have other stuff going on, right? And then if it was your own book, you would like procrastinate, and you know, like, ah, I get this, but when it's you're writing for someone else, it's so one of the things that I faced as a ghostwriter is sometimes you're in the position of being a therapist. And from my experience, I had a number of people that I talked to who cried in front of me on Zoom meetings because you really dig into areas that they have never explored before. So, what would you tell a ghostwriter if they're in that position?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, that's my experience too. I actually I often will joke with my friends and family. The number of times people have said the phrase to me, I've never told anybody that before. Really shocking, actually. Like, you know it's gonna be in a book though, right? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think that is something that you really do have to be prepared for. Uh in my experience, it's not usually a huge surprise. Usually when the client comes to you, they'll tell you kind of the nature of the book they want to write, and you can kind of tell, you know. So if it's somebody that comes to you and says, ours are actually all of our topics tend to be pretty heavy, but somebody who comes to you and says, you know, it's it gonna be a business book for women, entrepreneurs, how to balance family and life. There might be, you know, some emotional bits in the interview process, but probably that's gonna go pretty smoothly. If a person comes to you and says, you know, I lost my mother and my I and I lost a pregnancy in the same year, I mean, if people come to you and they tell you kind of what the story is, and I think you just gotta know, are you gonna be able to handle that? Because if it's something that for you is gonna be, you know, kind of triggering and upsetting, that might not be the best client for you. I really find that the more you can just practice your listening skills so that you can be engaged, that you're not kind of thinking about yourself and oh, how am I gonna write this up the whole time they're talking? You to me, it's so important to engage as a human because I think that is a lot of what people get out of writing a book is kind of getting those words out. In a ghostwriter case, it's sharing it. In a writer's case, you know, they're just writing it, but getting those ideas out and talking or thinking through them, how valuable is that, right? So I always want to make sure that the client comes away, not just with the book, but really feeling like they understand and know themselves better in the same way we do when we write our own book, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah. So what would you tell the ghostwriter who might get attached to the story? For example, I had a client who unfortunately passed away while I was still in the midst of writing the story, and I was someone who knew every single detail about his life. It can really get to you as as an author. So how would you prevent your authors from being affected like this?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

The writer, like the writers, you mean like on my staff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah. How would you like how would you make sure that their mental health is protected? Because, you know, they're dealing with a lot, and especially if the person you're uh writing the story for goes through these uh unfortunate events.

Breaking Into Ghostwriting As A Business

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, I I think that part of it really is just discovering whether it's kind of in your personality to be doing that type of work and how heavy of a book. I work with a lot of ghostwriters who just really only do business books. That is great. You know, they're if they're not a particularly, they're not kind of leaning toward that therapist tendency or that kind of nurturing or understanding or empathetic kind of world. To me, getting attached to the authors and getting attached to the books is I love that part.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So, you know, I mean, I have been to many of my authors' homes. I have, you know, met up with authors years after we worked together. In fact, actually, that's pretty common. I always give them a calendarly link after we're done working together and ask them to stay in touch. You know, I'll reach out every once in a while too. But I do think in terms of your mental health, I think the main thing is you have got to feel your feelings. And that is not just advice for ghostwriters and advice for everybody. But I think where we get into trouble is when we feel these big feelings, either from our own experiences. You know, if an author taps into something that you have been through that you maybe haven't processed as well as you thought, or I'm I'm an empath, so I will a lot of times feel very strongly the author's emotions. You gotta let it go. The number of times I've been in a hotel, you know, breakfast nook, just weeping while I'm writing somebody's stories was not insignificant. But I think the more you can feel it and just kind of be honest with yourself, like, wow, this this really you know hurts, or like, oh my gosh, this makes my my chest just swell with this, you know, pride or inspiration. You just gotta feel it. I think sometimes our instinct is to kind of try to bury or push those feelings down, or kind of like, okay, well, I'm gonna just keep distance. Sometimes you can't. And I think the most important thing is just being sure that you're allowing yourself to process and feel what you're feeling and not try to keep some kind of artificial professional distance in a field where that isn't really a thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

All right, so I'm gonna get into the weeds here a bit and ask you about the tools. Do you use AI? No, you don't use AI.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

We don't use AI at all.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

What how do you record the interviews?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. So I don't like to we do all our interviews on Zoom, but I don't like to use the Zoom recording software because it is so intrusive to me. You've got that thing at the top that's like recording and it just makes people nervous. When we were talking about my book earlier, maybe it was clear I'm a social scientist by trade. So part of what I was being trained for when I was in that career path was making sure that you were interviewing people and that they were really sharing the real stuff and not kind of what they thought would sound good as a journalist. You got that too. This just kind of Little trick, this kind of nuance of making sure people are sharing in ways that are open and honest. So I have an audio, I use Audacity. Um you can get that from soundforge.net. It's free. And I just run that alongside Zoom so that I'm just getting the audio. I always have it transcribed professionally. I have not found AI transcription to be of a high enough quality to be that helpful for writers.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Oh, really? But in my experience, what about otter? I use otter. Otter is very good. Oh T T E or. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Oh, Otter, I have not, I don't think it's it's not good enough for what I'm gonna give my writers. I think if you know, if you're the person, if you know, freelancer, you're the person that's gonna do the interviews, get the transcription. I think you can do whatever works for you. I'm bringing in ghostwriters. I really want to make sure they have everything they need. And I just have found with otter and that stuff, there's enough stuff that'll be just enough off that the draft comes in and I'm like, oh my gosh, what? Where did you get that idea? So we stick with human transcription.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Oh, really interesting. Yeah.

Timelines, Teams, And Deliverables

SPEAKER_01 23:07

So we use GoTranscript. I think we just logged our 10,000th hour of transcription pretty recently with them. So they have a loyalty program. We get a pretty good discount, but I build that into the package that the client pays. So I really want to make sure I think it's really, really important that those transcriptions are good.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So you're completely against AI.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, I well, I find that most of the time my clients are very against AI. Okay, okay that they're really worried actually that they're gonna pay somebody five figures and then they're gonna get something back from Chat GPT. So that's I have such a hard line against it because I my read is that the my particular client niche does not want AI.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Okay, it's interesting. Yeah. Is it because maybe the age of the clients or I mean, yeah, like when people start like people were scared of TV, people were scared of electricity, people were scared of many things. And do you think you know the tide will turn eventually that you would like really embrace AI because we're still scared of it.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Oh yeah, I wouldn't say I'm scared of it, and my clients are mostly my age. So I don't, it's not, you know, um yeah. Well, I'm in my 40s, but I think you know, most of my clients are are I think you know, we're millennials or Xers, and so we've kind of been through these these types of changes, right? But I it's not that I'm scared of it, it's that I don't, it's not good enough. I have very high standards, and I have played with AI to see if it could, you know, say in a book that's a prescriptive nonfiction, a business book, right? Where it's not necessarily, you don't necessarily need the most artistic language or we want it to be good, but it needs to be pretty straightforward. I've played with AI in those cases. I just think it sounds like Wikipedia. I think it, I think it I don't think it sounds like a professional writer wrote it. So I'm not afraid of AI. I I think it will eventually be able to do what a professional writer does. I would feel like I was scamming my clients if I was using AI. I I just it is not good enough, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

So what about how do you outline the book? They use what kind of tool do you use?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

So we use Scrivener, and I have interns who kind of organize and sort the transcripts. We have a, you know, I train them so that they tag them with topics. And then if you are not familiar with Scrivener, Scrivener has the writing portion, probably a lot of your listeners are, but has the writing portion of kind of your screen, and then along the side you can have tags or particular little, you know, documents. We break the transcripts up into smaller documents, and then you can move them around and group them. So we do that to make sure that everything is kind of flowing. That's different, of course, with prescriptive nonfiction. You're kind of clumping by theme and idea. With memoir, narrative nonfiction, of course, the story will kind of map the main story using a technique we have trademarked in our company called the memoir method. So we'll use that for the skeleton, and then with Scrivener, we'll use that to kind of pull in where do we want flashbacks, where do we want particular pieces of context, that kind of thing. And then the writers write up the outline. It's usually about 100, 150 words per chapter, so that the client can look at it, review it. I really do find if you can make sure the outline is really solid and the client is really excited about it, on board with it, the rest goes so much more smoothly. So we put a lot of emphasis on making sure the outline's really solid.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Are there any projects that you would not work on? Like let's say sexual abuse, you know, stuff like that. Do you have any taboos that you want to touch?

Emotional Labor And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So we work with a lot of people on sexual assault. I'm a survivor of sexual assault, and then later in my life, domestic violence. So I oftentimes will connect with women who have been through those kinds of things. So we take on a lot of a lot of trauma memoir and a lot of folks who have turned their lives around in kind of amazing ways following a pretty heavy trauma. The line for me is that we are a left-leaning company. We are progressive in our ideals, we're very values-based, mission-driven. So I would not take on a client who was, you know, very far right leaning. I wouldn't take on a client who, you know, was like blaming victims or, you know, blaming women or blaming people of color for particular things in society. I want to make sure that all of the books we work on, we can be really proud that we worked on them. We can talk about them. And I really, we will do a non-disclosure for a client if they want us to do a non-disclosure, but I charge extra for it because I really want to be able to share the work that my company is doing and be really proud of it. So it's got to then be aligned with our values. I'm never going to take on a client that I would feel like I would have to hide that I worked on their book.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I see. So, what about the ghostwriters themselves? Have you ever had to let one go? And what was the reason?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Oh, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I warned you, I'm a journalist.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I love it. I I would, I don't think I've ever had to let a ghostwriter go. I have moved people to different projects. If it was like, I, you know what, I know this person's talented, but for whatever reason, this project is not a good fit for them. I have, and I always, when I bring somebody new on that I haven't worked with before, I always just plan to mentor them. Even if they're trained, even if they have some experience, I want to make sure that they understand what my expectations are. So typically we're making sure that our ghostwriters are getting a lot of support throughout the process. So I can't really imagine firing anybody because I think it would be pretty clear that we needed the part ways before it would come to the firing.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

So for anyone who is listening or watching and they want to get into ghostwriting, what shall they do? How do they contact you? Or, you know, how do they find you? And what kind of process do they have to go through?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah, so if you are, if you have not done any ghostwriting before, I will ask you to, you know, do a project or two on your own before I would bring you on, you know, as one of our bench. If you are interested in getting started and you'd like some kind of business support, that is something you can reach out through our website, pageandpodium.com slash contact. You can actually make an appointment to chat with me and check in about a consult. But if you're wanting to work for us, I we do make sure that our authors have some experience, or our ghostwriters rather, have some experience. So I would say get out there and and ask, let your friends and family know that you're wanting to start ghostwriting. That's most of us get our start from someone we know wants to write a book and they heard that we know how to do it, and it turns out that you're ghostwriting all of a sudden. So it's it is not as hard, I think, as folks think to get that first job. You may not get paid the way you want to, but get a couple projects under your belt. And then, like I said, if you're really wanting to establish the business presence, getting your marketing flow so that it's systematized, easy, fun, not so stressful, that is my specialty. So reach out through our website, pageandpodium.com/slash contact, and I'd be happy to chat with you about that.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So you also mentioned you're a book coach. So what kind of book coaching do you provide?

Tools, Transcription, And Why Not AI

SPEAKER_01 30:43

It's the same. We work with the same type of authors in book coaching and ghostwriting. It's we have a pretty clear defined brand. We have two book coaching packages. The first one is the one-on-one kind of standard. We call it editor in your pocket. So as I'm working, and I also have a full-time book coach on my staff, Emily Thrash. She's amazing. We'll meet with our authors once a week, go over kind of what, you know, what are you working on next week? What did you work on last week? And then also as part of that package, every week we'll review 3,000 words and give some developmental feedback. You know, we're not, we're not editing, but give developmental feedback, give some coaching, give some, you know, wording suggestions, flow and structure suggestions, that kind of thing. So that's kind of the more intimate, more hands-on, involved one-on-one package. We also offer a group program for women who are writing their memoirs specifically, and that's called the memoir method, named after our the process that we use and teach in that program, is a structure and outlining process. So in that program, we do weekly group calls where everybody can get on, encourage each other, ask their questions, learn from each other's questions. They have you know different kinds of built-in accountability. We have a vault of trainings so that it goes through that memoir method process as well as, you know, we've got trainings on writing dialogue. I find people always struggle with that. Trainings on making sure that your chapters flow smoothly, how do you put a flashback in? Where do you start when you're revising? So we're really taking people in that group program all the way from I've got an idea, where do I start? All the way to how do you want to publish it? Let's get your proposal ready, or let's figure out who's your publishing team, whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Right. So, what does the future hold for Amanda in terms of publishing books? So you published you call you co-authored the summer of 2020. What's what's next for you? I mean, I know you're very busy with your business, but uh what's next in terms of writing?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yeah, so I am I've never been a person that just does a little bit. If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it all the way.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

I've noticed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

So I have my fourth and fifth book are both in progress right now. So the the my fourth book will be a sort of a lead-in, a sort of overview to the memoir method process. So I'm working on that. That will be much more of just a straightforward how-to so that people have that resource as a little bit lower priced entry point into that program if you don't want that kind of full-on coaching process. And then I think much more exciting, my fifth book is my memoir. And it's about I was partnered with a literal psychopath, was very good at hiding it. And then when stuff kind of came out, it got very scary and very dramatic. So I am working on a memoir about sort of what it was like to realize that a person I'd been living with for a decade was doing things like hurting animals and things. How do you then move forward from your life, rebuild, trust yourself to identify people's character, that kind of thing. So that has been that has been a really good thing for me to do. I've written many memoirs for other people. Going through my own has really kind of given me a different perspective on what is it like to dig back through this stuff. And uh, you need a lot of breaks.

unknown 34:12

I'm learning.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

So sorry to hear about what you went through and glad you're writing about it. Um, I'm sure it's gonna help others. So this is this has been great, Amanda. So, any any final words of advice for anyone who wants to write a book, to ghostwrite a book, you know, one thing you know, it'd like to tell people who want to get into this business.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is you have got to get support in community. Whether you're wanting to ghostwrite, write your own book, whatever you're wanting to do, there has got to be somebody kind of in your corner. I find that a lot of people, both in starting to ghostwrite and in writing their own books, if you have any kind of self-doubt, you're wondering if you can do it, a really natural tendency is to keep the project a secret. And it's the worst thing you can do. If you don't tell anybody you're trying to do this new big venture, first of all, people can't help you. And second of all, it is way, way too easy when the going gets tough to just not do it, right? When you tell people, when you recruit in a community, even just one friend, I call this an accountability buddy, somebody who will hold you accountable. It makes it so much easier to stick to this dream that you had, follow through, just not give up. It's gonna be hard no matter what. Writing a book is hard whether it's your book or somebody else's. So just make sure you have support.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah, this is great. So this has been great, Amanda, and I look forward to reading your memoir and all the other books that you're gonna work on. Number four and number five. And for anyone who's watching or listening, thank you for uh joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and until we meet again. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, Natasha Times. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time.