Read And Write With Natasha
This podcast discusses writing life, reviews books, and interviews authors and industry professionals. It's run by author, journalist, and ghostwriter Natasha Tynes, a Jordanian-American.
Read And Write With Natasha
Oops! He Dropped the Leftovers, So I Wrote a Book
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What happens when a child spills leftovers on the kitchen floor and immediately labels himself "stupid"?
For author Brenda Do, this heartbreaking moment sparked the creation of It's Okay Not to Know, a children's book challenging our perfection-obsessed culture.
Growing up Chinese in 1970s America, Brenda never saw herself represented in children's literature; every book featured white children. This experience shaped her determination to create characters that every child could identify with, regardless of appearance or background.
So she created a world of colorful monsters with the gender-neutral protagonist leading readers through lessons of self-compassion and curiosity.
Brenda draws fascinating connections between childhood messaging and adult behavior, noting how our early experiences with "failure" shape our willingness to take risks later in life.
She references Stanford professor Carol Dweck's groundbreaking research on growth mindset, explaining how praising effort rather than results can dramatically expand children's potential.
With just 230 words and playful rhyming text, Brenda describes it as "Dr. Seuss meets Brené Brown" - simple language conveying profound emotional intelligence.
📬 JOIN THE NEWSLETTER
The Storyteller Quest is a weekly letter on writing,
publishing, and the business of books.
Subscribe, and I'll send you Traditional, Self, or Hybrid? —
11 pages on what each publishing path really costs, plus a
7-question worksheet that tells you which one is yours.
The Genesis of "It's Okay Not to Know"
Speaker 1So a lot of fish therapists and ESL teachers are saying this is great for kids because they get so frustrated because they can't speak the language yet , but this is letting them know it's OK not to know . This says keep being curious , you know . So the response that I've had from kids and educators and parents have just been phenomenal . Where they just go wow , this is . I just love it . My favorite was when a parent came back to me and said one time she said my kids were . We have reading nights . And when I asked pick a book , we'll get on the couch and we'll cuddle and read . And she goes , they keep picking the same book and read , and she goes , they keep picking the same book .
Speaker 2It's yours . Hi friends , this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast . My name is Natasha Tynes and I'm an author and a journalist . In this channel I talk about the writing life , review books and interview authors . Hope you enjoy the journey . Hi everyone , and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha . I have with me today author Brenda Doe who , growing up as a Chinese girl in the United States during the 1970s , brenda noticed the lack of diversity in children's book . Inspired by her observations and the challenges her niece and nephew faced , brenda penned it's Okay Not to Know , a story that encourages children to embrace their imperfections and fosters compassion . Wow , great , brenda . I'm so happy to have you here . I'm so excited to talk about your work , especially when it comes to promoting diversity in children's literature . So , brenda , thank you for joining me today and if you can tell us a bit about the book it's Okay Not to Know . What is it about and you know what prompted you to write .
Speaker 1Okay , um , in order to understand what it's about , let me go backwards a little bit and prompt with what's how the story started . Okay , what happened was I was visiting my , my , my , um , my little nephew and niece at one one time , and it was . We were finishing up dinner and and we're putting everything away and doing the dishes , and then so my little nephew at the time had a little plastic container with the leftovers . He didn't have the lid on tightly enough and he accidentally dropped it on his way to the refrigerator . So when he dropped it , leftovers flew all over the floor , splattered on the cabinets and the walls , everything , and accidents happen . But his reaction was oh man , I'm so stupid . And he was just so upset with himself and my heart broke because I was thinking it was just an accident , it's okay . But instead he just saw it as a failure and something that he didn't do right . And it's not as if his parents were harsh on him . His parents are very loving , but that's the message he gave himself and that's how he labeled himself .
Speaker 1And then so I started to . It really bothered me . I've seen lots of things like that happen throughout the years with different children , you know , including my own upbringing . But then I just thought why do kids do that to themselves ? Why are they so hard on themselves like that ? And then I started to do a little more research and then I realized , oh my gosh , all these well-meaning adults , whether they're caretakers , whether they're parents or school teachers , anything we always put , like , the A papers on the refrigerator , but we don't put the C papers on there , do we ? You know , we don't stay like during dinner . You know , after school we don't sit around talking and ask , ooh , what did you fail at today ? Instead we're saying , hey , what ?
Speaker 1did you do well . Today , you know , we're asking those kinds of questions where success is rewarded . You know people who actually try hard , and then they're , you know , and they're I'm forgetting the words , I'm sorry today , right now , but their attempts at doing things and everything else that's not rewarded , it's all about the end result . You know , not the effort but the results . And then so when I was thinking about that , I just thought , you know , adults mean well , they don't realize it , but the message that they're giving the kid at the time is well , if you can't do well , then you're not as good . And what a lot of kids think of as not as good , as I'm not lovable . And when they think they're not lovable , they think that there's something wrong with them . And that's what usually happens , you know , and not for everybody , but that's what usually happens at the thought mindset .
Speaker 1And Carol Dweck , the professor at Stanford , did a massive studies on the growth mindset around children . And you know , and that's what she was discovering as well , if you label someone for their results instead of for their effort , it shrinks their mindset and so they don't feel like they can achieve as much . And then I thought how cruel is that to have kids grow up in the world limiting themselves , and at least for Asian culture , generally speaking , I grew up Chinese , the the whole idea is you're supposed to be this wonderful person when you come out of the womb and know everything . You know , and you're supposed to excel at everything , um and then . So if you don't , then
Understanding the Growth Mindset for Children
Speaker 1you get in trouble , right and then so . And I was just thinking , uh , trying is not good enough in a lot of cultures , and especially for females . In most cultures , the females , they have to just be ideal , what adults think are ideal , and then so boys are . A lot of times they're rewarded for taking more risks . The girls aren't . So then what happens is we all start shrinking our worlds a little bit , you know , especially girls and then so we stay in our lane . We do things that we know we can do well , but then we don't really expand .
Speaker 1Now , fast forward that to being an adult . And you're thinking , okay , we're taught like , especially in the tech world , because I write a lot for tech as a copywriter , and everyone is saying to them , to everybody Ooh , you got to fail fast . You know the whole meta thing , but subconsciously , if you still have that fear of failure , you're not going to fail fast because you're still going to limit yourself . Even if the company tries to create a safe culture for their employees , you're still going to have people who say no , you know what , I know I can push myself to this point , but there's something subconsciously that keeps them from doing that . And you see that in adults when they get very , when they get very like defensive and then they say you know , it's like if you try to explain something to somebody , an adult goes well , I knew that Right , and they start getting very defensive . That's the whole . You can't tell me I'm wrong . They don't understand why they're bristling , but it's subconscious that you tell me that I'm wrong or you tell me anything like that . That means I'm not good enough , I'm not smart enough , I'm not enoughness of some sort . You know it goes back to being that child again . So that's the long story of why I wrote the book and what the book is about .
Speaker 1The book is about it's okay if you make a mistake or if you don't know how to do something .
Speaker 1If you're , you know four and you're still trying to figure out how to tie your shoelaces and you can't do it , but the kid next to you can , it's okay , keep trying . Stay with that open mindset of curiosity instead of going . Stay with that open mindset of curiosity instead of going I can't , I can't Go , how can I , how can I do this ? You know , let's be curious , let's not be fearful of failure , right ? And then let's keep expanding ourselves , and then it's all about self-love . If we treat ourselves lovingly that way , instead of judging ourselves , then not only can we expand , but we can treat others more lovingly as well . And that's part of the message of the book is not just compassion for ourselves , as compassion for others . And that's why there's that character in the book . You know when Fink , who purposely does not have a gender , because I'm trying to be as inclusive as possible , and I think the protagonist puts an umbrella symbolically over another character , so that way it's showing hey , we can all learn together . So that's the purpose of the book .
Speaker 2Well , so who's the target audience ? Is your target audience all the kids at large , or do you want to focus on the Asian culture ? Because the pressure to succeed is you know I'm assuming , correct me if I'm wrong is more prevalent than in other cultures ?
Speaker 1That's a good question . Actually it's for everyone , and really it's a Trojan horse for adults as well , and really it's a Trojan horse for adults as well , because as adults read the message to their children , then it's great for them to go . Oh yeah , I remember this Because I'm not saying anything that no one's ever heard before . I'm just putting it in a different way , putting it out there in a different way , but it is definitely meant for everyone , and that's why the main character of the book , its name , is Bink , and Bink is a sound that , as far as I understand , can be made by any culture , any language , and so I wanted to make sure that all kids have an opportunity to relate to the characters and to the story so they help , encourage them to take more chances and live their big , brilliant selves .
Speaker 2Okay , and the characters in the book ? Are they identified as Chinese or Asian , or no ? You're trying to stay away from that , yeah not at all .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's why they're little monsters . My gorgeous illustrator he is so brilliant . When he illustrated the book , I asked him create a fictional world for me , you know , one where every child can see themselves in it . Because I grew up in the US in the 70s and even now it's a little more common , but it's still not as common when every book I saw at school and in the library when they had pictures in it or anyone on the cover , they're all white kids . I did not look like a single one of those . So I wanted to make sure every child , no matter what they look like physically or how they felt about themselves , could relate to the characters , and that's why I have a fictitious world Okay about themselves , could relate to the characters , and that's why I have a fictitious world .
Speaker 2Okay , and how did it make you feel when you were growing up in the US and not seeing someone who looks like you ? Yeah , I felt like . Did you feel ?
Speaker 1I felt like I belonged but didn't belong . I was always an outsider trying to prove myself to be in . You know , that's
Creating Inclusive Characters for All Children
Speaker 1yeah .
Speaker 2I see I see Okay , trying to prove myself to be in . You know that's . Yeah , I see I see okay . Would you ever translate the book into chinese , or you , you don't want , you're not like too concerned about the chinese audience , or have you ever thought about it ?
Speaker 1yeah , actually , um , ideally like my publisher when we first started working together . He goes I can see this translated in 40 languages and da , da , da and I was like , ok , well , let's make it happen , because the more languages , the more children , the only that we can reach Right . And the whole idea for me is this is a passion project , so I want to uplift as many people as possible Kids , adults , you know , and so translation definitely the only hard part about translating the book is it's a rhyming book , so you can't translate . It won't translate very well , um , in another language .
Speaker 2However , the message can definitely still be in there yeah , so you mentioned your publisher , so I'm curious to hear about your publishing journey . So you wrote the book and then how did you get published ? What was your journey like ?
Speaker 1I did the typical thing where I went online and I looked up how do you publish a book and then I just pitched it to a million publishers and I decided I want to go with Indies independents Because one I didn't have a social media following and I don't have a big name , I'm not a celebrity of any sort and then so I decided , okay , I'm going to go with an independent and see where we can go from there . Everything that I read always said okay , you're going to get hundreds of rejections and it's going to be at least a two year journey and all that kind of stuff . I didn't buy into that because I believe you can create your own fate or in your own world . So I talked to what I call my upstairs team . I was like , hey , listen , universe , this is what I want . I was like , okay , listen , universe , this is what I want .
Speaker 1I want to be able to have this book published by somebody , a publisher , who gets it , who loves it as much as I do and treats it respectfully and also has a very respectful relationship . So I gave my list of what I wanted and then I said and I'd like it delivered within six months or less . Connect me with that person , Right ? So I take the action that I need to take and then , literally five months later , I get an email from the publisher and it starts off with an apology , which you never , as you know , hear from publishers . I'm sorry the apology was . I'm sorry it took so long for us to review your book . We'd love to publish it , and that's how it started , and the universe , being in the awesome universe that it is , gave me that email on my birthday . So you know , I was just like yay , and that's how we connected . So who's your publisher ? Peanut Butter Publishing .
Speaker 2Okay , so how did you find them ? So you said you Googled how to publish a book and then you put what you wanted from the universe . So you said I wanted a publisher that accepts diverse books , treat them respectfully and is a fast publisher . Did you specify an indie publisher or like ? What were your keyword search in Google ? I'm just curious to get to that .
Speaker 1I believe my keywords were independent publishers and that was it . I might have said children's book , but probably not . So I went through . I had this big old spreadsheet . Okay , so I can talk about talking about the universe , but we're still in the 3D world , so we still have to take action , right ? So I had this spreadsheet and I went through and I probably only had like 25 , 30 publishers on there and as I'm going through the websites , I'm seeing who's no longer accepting because it was such a busy time for them . I mean , I published this during COVID , which was a horrible time to publish , Uh , and then so uh , between uh , looking for independence , and then also going through and vetting them to see who was actually going to accept a new work , accept a children's picture book , which that narrowed the list even further , yeah . So I think I probably had maybe 25 that I was submitting to at the time and I could have kept going . It's just I didn't need to because you know I got a yes within five months .
Speaker 2I see , Did you ? Did you get your own illustrator or did they provide you with the illustrator ? They actually provided .
Speaker 1Sorry , I had to look at , I forgot his name . That was terrible . They provided an illustrator , cs Fritz . He's worked with the publisher on many , many different books .
Speaker 1What's neat about him is that his genre is actually horror
The Author's Publishing Journey
Speaker 1, which is completely opposite of what I wanted , because I'm all about love . But when I saw his portfolio and how creative he is , I was like you know what ? Let's just talk . And when I spoke with him and this is a great question because it's helps a lot of authors too , right , so I spoke with him and this is a great question because it helps a lot of authors too , right , so I spoke with him and I asked , and then I explained to him the world that I want and the purpose of the book , and he understood so instantly and he just got so excited and everything else . He's like I want to create this world for you . And that's how we connected Because , to say , a horror illustrator you know , who has nothing but a cute little world about love , and he just did a fantastic job . And also he's so intelligent the way he was interpreting certain scenes and also the type of illustrations style he decided to do , and all that other kind of stuff . I'm like , oh my gosh .
Speaker 2OK , so you refer to them as an independent publisher and for anyone who is listening or watching , they probably want to know what makes an independent publisher independent . So what did they provide you with and what did you have to provide ?
Speaker 1So I think what makes them independent and you most likely know a lot more than I do , since you teach this , so me being the haphazard customer basically it's anyone who's just not one of the big guys like Random House , all those guys where they control the messaging , they control the marketing , they control a lot of the stuff . They also , as far as I understand and please let me know if I'm wrong they also can change the words of the book and also the idea of the imagery and everything if they know it's being marketed differently . And so I wanted full control over the message of this because , again , this is like coming from my heart and it's a passion project and it's like I rather sell let's say , 10 million instead of a hundred million if it's a matter of keeping the integrity of the book right . So an independent allows you to do that . You have full rights over you know how the illustration , the copy , everything about the book itself and also the marketing .
Speaker 1And the independent that I went to and some people I think they call them vanity publishers . That might be the same thing . So the independent that I went to did not help with the marketing . They helped me find the illustrator , they helped me connect with people to get the endorsements for the book itself before it was published . So all of that was wonderful and very helpful . The marketing itself you're on your own and they also help you get it printed the first batch of printing . So I think I started off with like a thousand books or something like that .
Speaker 2Did you have to ?
Speaker 1pay anything out of pocket . Yes , you pay for the publishing of the printing of the books itself , and some of their fees are wrapped up in that . The illustrator I decided , instead of having them help me , I'd be putting all into the package and everything else . Oh , sorry , there's also a designer , because once the illustrator creates the pages of the book , there's a designer that lays it all out as well , and then so , with the illustrator , I work directly with him that way , because I'm so used to you know me being like you and I were used to working in project teams and being in the creative field , so I'm so used to working with designers that it was easier for me just to have my own contract with that person and then just do my own thing .
Speaker 2So they're more of a hybrid publisher , I would probably say , which is like in between self-publishing and traditional publishing . I think that's kind of the term that the new industry there . So , brenda , what do you have plans for the future when it comes to publishing After publishing this book ? Do you want to keep publishing children's books or books in general , or do you want to focus publishing children's book or books in general , or do you want to focus on your copywriting ?
Speaker 1business . I want to keep publishing more books , children's books , along this vein because I feel like I have at least , um , probably six total in my head that want to come along this genre . Uh , because , uh , bink is not finished . You , and it was awesome because my illustrator , when he was finished , he says I'm so sad because it feels like I'm just done and I don't want to be done Write another book Because he just loved the world and the characters so much . And I told him I was like , don't worry , I am not a one trick pony , there is more coming . So once this one goes out into the world and does this magical thing , then there are more to follow . I tell people I kind of liken the book to like Dr Seuss meets Brene Brown , where , you know , I make the concept really easy . It like that it is a simple rhyme . I mean there are only what 230 or something like that words in the entire book . I mean it's short but the impact is powerful . So I got more of those in my brain coming out .
Speaker 2Cool , and you want to stay with the same publisher , or do you have ?
Speaker 1I don't know yet . Yeah , it just depends . I'm always open , so I figured you know . You just never know what's out there in the world , so I just stay open .
Speaker 2Just like how the book says yeah , okay , yeah . And what was the reaction you got from readers after you , because you published the book , I think last year , correct ? Yes , yeah . What was the reaction that you got from the book , the ?
Speaker 1reaction was perfect . Kids loved it . Adults a lot of times you either get it or you don't , because it kind of gives you an idea of the mindset where they are right , because you either get it or you don't . And the parents who get it , they're thinking oh my gosh , I got to get this in front of my kid , the teachers love it . Now , if an educator loves it , they're thinking oh my gosh , I got to get this in front of my kid , the teachers love it .
Speaker 1Now , if an educator loves it , you know there's something going on , especially because it touches a lot of the social , emotional learning which the SEL , which a lot of educators are talking about right now and then . So , and also like one of them was a speech therapist who I went to because English is not my first language and then . So when I was a kid , they didn't have English as a second language tutoring available at schools , so it was what we call sink or swim you either just all of a sudden know English when you're in class or they kick you out of school . Yeah , and then . So a lot of . So anyway , speech therapists and ESL teachers are saying this is great for kids because they get so frustrated because they can't speak the language yet . But this is letting them know it's okay not to know . This says keep being curious , you know .
Speaker 1So the response that I've had from kids and educators and parents have just been phenomenal . Where they just go wow , this is . I just love it . My favorite is was when a parent came back to me and said one time she said my kids , we have reading nights . And when I asked pick a book , we'll get on the couch and we'll cuddle and read . And she goes , they keep picking the same book it's yours . Because the message really connects with little ones . They might not be able to read yet , but they get it because they come into this world getting it .
Speaker 2So how did you market the book ? What were your marketing efforts and what worked the most and what didn't work ?
Speaker 1Speaking of failing , Okay , so you know how basically anything that you do is basically a lesson you need to learn for yourself
Marketing Challenges and Successes
Speaker 1. This is therapy , right here .
Speaker 1And that's exactly how the marketing works , Especially when my profession is a direct response copywriter , I'm always helping all the businesses sell their stuff . Now , when you got to do your own one is you have to really believe your stuff , right , you can't be shy about it . And I believe in this because this is bigger than I am . And then the other thing is , when it comes to marketing okay , I could call it failures , because , yes , when you look at the ROI , but it's like I told someone once , because I've been involved in probably seven quote unquote failed startups , People will come to me and go , okay , hey , we need you on our marketing team , blah , blah , blah . And I've lost so much money joining startups . And when someone said to me one time I was like , wow , you've failed a lot in business , I told them I was like , well , it's how you look at it . To me I didn't fail . I was collecting data because I learned from every single experience . So for the marketing side , same thing I've hired public , I have a publicist , I have people on social media . I've changed from social media agency to this individual . I've gone and I've got somebody in the Philippines who's my marketing assistant . She's helping me reach out to museum stores , finding sales reps to produce , to represent my book at boutique stores and other specialty stores in the US . You know , working on the wholesale angle as well as working with individuals .
Speaker 1I've done email marketing to schools and teachers and librarians . I've gone door to door to libraries and around my cities . I have tried so much and what's amazing is what doesn't work . And I'm thinking okay , I'm a marketing person by trade , right , it's like what am I missing here ? And then so one of the and this is again the more energetic side of me is I have to get myself in alignment first , because I can take all the action in the world , but if I truly , on a soul level , don't believe that I can do it , then I'm not going to create the connections that I need and then .
Speaker 1So what I did is I've been getting myself in order , because it's been a year and that's very expensive to keep doing all this . As you know . You know it's been a year of trial and error and trying to understand what's going on and why money keeps flowing out , but it's not flowing in as much as it should , Even though I'm getting all these amazing reviews from people who do read the book . And then so I just thought , okay , I need to get myself in order , get my energy in order , know that I deserve to be out there and I can make a big and then keep moving forward . So now I'm getting traction . It's been , I think , a year of efforting instead of a year of allowing , so now I'm allowing the success to come in as I keep putting my effort out there .
Speaker 2I see so what worked the most ?
Speaker 1What worked the most , you know ? Numbers wise , I would say it would be hiring my publicist to get me on podcasts .
Speaker 2Ah , so podcasts ? Okay , I heard that a lot from especially independent authors is the number one thing that moves the needle for them is the podcast , which is good news for me , but I like that . So , yes , it was two days ago I got an email from because sometimes I take the podcast and I create a blog post of the podcast , like expand on the topic and you know my analysis and send it on my sub stack and I got a response from one of the leaders says oh , what a wonderful interview . I just bought the book . So I thought that was really nice . So I shared the email with the author and he was very pleased . So , yeah , I'm pleased to know that these interviews can move the needle for authors . So you think podcasts , what else ?
Speaker 1So I think the second one would be , if I was to pick , probably , social media , yeah , I would not put as much into social media as people would think , though . Not put as much into social media as people would think , though , and the reason is because it's us . You know , that's like anything with social media . It's , it's one , it's a marketing channel and it's a . It's one of those um like , um like being a PR person , public relations , it . You know , it's one of those where it's a constant slow build . So , unless you go viral or something like that , or you already have a huge following , I tried going through the influencer route , but the person who was working with me couldn't do it for very long , so I don't think that I gave it enough of a try , but I would definitely do more of the micro influencers than I would . The cause to me , this kind of like a more akin to podcasting as far as targeting . I would do that more than posting all the time and paying people to help you post all the time .
Speaker 2What Shana's ?
Speaker 1work the most For me because of my audience , I would say it would be Instagram , and I haven't done TikTok . I've heard a lot that TikTok would be good , but for me it was Instagram , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , instagram . Most of the authors tell me Instagram these days . Okay , this is great . So what tips would you give to someone who wants to write a children's book ? So let's do a case study . I have a children's book . It's ready . I have not pitched it yet . It's just sitting in the shelf of the dead manuscripts I guess you want to call them . So what would you tell me to do right now ?
Speaker 1That's your case study . Okay , then this is coming from someone who hasn't sold 10 million books yet yet you will .
Speaker 1You will talk to your team upstairs so if you have a manuscript , let's say , and you've already pitched it to a publisher , you haven't pitched it , I haven't pitched it , so you haven't pitched it . First of all , I would say get your own self in order and believe that you really , really , really . It's already a success . See yourself succeeding , see it already being done , open yourself up to all potentials and possibilities . It's all about what's possible , not what you believe as far as what you've seen in the past , but just
Advice for Aspiring Children's Book Authors
Speaker 1knowing . That's why I love seeing everyone else's success . Seeing a trillionaire here and all that kind of stuff . I'm like yay , that tells me it's possible . I don't get jealous about it , I get excited for them . Right , and it's the same thing . So get excited for that . Feel it . Hear the publisher talking to you , you know . See the sales going out the door . Know that you can play big , because that's where you belong , that's where every human belongs is playing freaking big . Get yourself in order first , figure out what success looks like for you , and then also and and dream bigger than you think , and then figure out what kind of publisher relationship you want , because I have friends who have published books through the big guys and some of them have amazing experiences . Some of them are upset . They might've sold a lot of copies , but they're not as happy as they could have been , right . So it just depends on what's right for you . So figure that out first . Clarity is everything . You can't create something if you don't know what you want . And then so if you know , like , for example , you want that kind of relationship where they offer all the marketing for you , that they take care of you , that they help give you coaching , because you know , because , like , I'm not shy , right , and then I came from a sales background , but some people hate to talk about themselves or be in public Then know that your publisher has a team of people who's going to help you with that , you know , and then . So this depends on how much handholding you want as well and how much support you want in the background .
Speaker 1Also , figure out your budget . As you know , this is an expensive process . You can self-publish through Amazon or IngramSparks or something like that and just do a you know , a pay-per-book type of thing and you can do your own , and some people do a very good job with this because they have such a great social media following . They can sell , you know , hundreds of thousands of copies on their own , without anybody else's help , and good on them . If you know you don't have that , then then you have to figure out .
Speaker 1Okay then how much money do I have to spend on marketing ? Just you know , cause you're looking easily per year , depending on how big you want to go easily a five figure budget , that's a lot , you know , multiple five figures . So I think I mean at least starting off a lot of the like the hybrid publisher that I went to this quote for me to publish I mean to print , not publish , print 10,000 books and a lot of that kind of stuff , and this is with me doing my own design contract . I think the quote was 21 , 22,000 . You know , that was just . That was kind of shocking .
Speaker 2So why didn't you do your ? Why didn't you just self-publish ? If you were willing to pay that much , why ?
Speaker 1didn . I didn't self-publish is because I wanted the the . I'm forgetting the word right now . Sorry , but you know how when you have a real publisher on the binding of your book , it looks more legitimate than to say , oh , I self-published through Amazon .
Speaker 2There's nothing wrong with that , but you know , there's a way around that and the way around , that is , you can create your own publishing house . So for me , my first book is published under my own company , which is Suburban Media Group . So that's the publisher . So that's one way to do it .
Speaker 1I could have saved 20 grand .
Speaker 2You can just buy me coffee , it's okay , oh my gosh .
Speaker 1yeah , see , all this stuff I didn't know and that's part of my fault too is apparently when I did my research I didn't go deeply enough .
Speaker 2Yeah it's okay . I mean , it takes years to find this out , but yeah , and then with Amazon , when you do Amazon KDP , you can pick your name and then you have to prove your company , which is easy because you already have one . Oh my gosh .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh . Okay , well , there you have it . There's a tip right there . That was the only reason .
Speaker 2Yeah , I really thought that they could help me with the marketing and they kind of promised they would , but they didn't do as much as I should you know , yeah , but that's , that's and I heard that a lot from people because I talked to authors like three times a week at least and many of them they wanted the credibility , they wanted the fact , they wanted someone to tell them you're a good writer , you are worthy of being published . So I am gonna take your manuscript oh , that's the word .
Speaker 1Yeah , credibility . I was stuck on that , thank you , but you're right , yeah , so I fell for that trap , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's what we want . Yeah , yeah , we all do . I mean ego is the enemy . That is very true .
Speaker 1Yeah , I figured oh well , the schools won't take me seriously , the parents won't take me seriously , unless I have a you know a little publisher name underneath it .
Speaker 2But no , it's all mindset . Go back to the beginning of the interview .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , that was a belief right there . Ok , I'm going to kick that to the curb for the next five books . Thanks for setting me straight .
Speaker 2But anyway . So this this has been wonderful , brenda , and I really enjoyed talking to you and you actually inspired me about imagining success , manifesting it and aligning yourself , because I can fall into the trap of failing . That can actually personally crush me and how you look at it , also as a data rather than basically an insult to your intelligence , and from your book as well . I like that you're teaching that to the kids from an early age , and I tried to do that with my own kids .
Speaker 2So my son was trying to learn how to cook and he's like I'm going to burn the house down . And then I told him the story when I was in college . I did put something in the oven , the alarm went off and they called the ambulance and they evacuated the whole dorm and he laughed and he thought it was funny and he's like I didn't know that about you and I was like , yeah , I mean you see me as a good cook now , but like I had to go through multiple failures in order to achieve that , and I think that story really resonated with him and that's the message that I see in your book as well . So it is , it's really on point and it's really needed . So thank you again , brenda . And for anyone who's watching or listening , how can they reach you , how they can get your books ? You know what are ways to reach you .
Speaker 1They can reach me on social media on Facebook , Instagram and Pinterest , and it's all under the
Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Speaker 1original Brenda Doe . Otherwise , the easiest way is just to go to my website . All the links to the social media are there too , and also links to purchase the book , and the website is brendadoecom , and that's spelled B-R-E-N-D-A-D-Ocom . So thank you so much . I had so much fun .
Speaker 2I did too . Thank you very much , brenda , and , for anyone who's listening or watching , thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and , until we meet again , thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha . I'm your host , natasha Tynes . If today's episode inspired you in any way , please take the time to review the podcast . In any way , please take the time to review the podcast . Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers . Until next time , happy reading , happy writing .
People on this episode
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Bianca Marais, Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra
Writing Excuses
Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler