SPEAKER_00: 0:04

This is the big butt is I spent a month in the UK this summer and sourced where to print in the UK and sourced how to get distributors. Because here in Colombia I do the legwork. You know, I I'll walk down to the bookshops and drop off the books. They email me, I'll do all the fact. But of course, you know, again, as I say, I'm kind of an old romantic in this. I do want to see the books on bookshelves. I do want that visibility. You know, it would be a dream, for example, to get into the Dawn's bookshop in Marlebone, you know, the travel bookshop. While my books aren't travel books, because they're about Colombia, they fall into that category very easily.

SPEAKER_02: 0:46

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. My name is Natasha Tines, and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. I have with me today Richard McCall, who, in addition to being an author and a publisher, he's actually a friend. And we went to college together, we went to City University together. We both studied journalism. So I'm really excited to see him and talk to him after all these years. And Richard McCall is now a freelance foreign correspondent based in Colombia. His work has appeared in major outlets, including the Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, the BBC, and others. He holds a PhD in social and human sciences and MA in conflict resolution, in addition to a diploma in international journalism from City University London. In 2023, he launched Fuller Vigil, which is a boutique editorial house publishing independent literature in Colombia. And his titles include Better Than Cocaine by Barry Max Wills and Columbia at Crossroads by McCall himself. His uh weekly podcast, Columbia Calling, has run for over a decade, offering in-depth stories from the country of Colombia. He is also a publisher of books, his own books, the latest of which is called The Mompos Project. All right, Richard, so excited to chat with you today. And I hope some of our classmates are watching as well.

SPEAKER_00: 2:39

I'm trying to remember how long it's been since we spoke, Natasha.

SPEAKER_02: 2:44

That's probably over 20 years. Now everyone knows how old I am. You know, I know I still look the same.

SPEAKER_00: 2:51

I don't. I don't.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54

All right. But but Richard, so I'm really excited to chat with you first. I want to talk about your latest book, which is The Mompas Project. The Mompas Project, exactly. So can you tell us a bit about this book, why you wrote it, and what is it about?

SPEAKER_00: 3:08

It's a bit embarrassing because it's taken me more than 10 years to actually put it together. You know, the regular writing problems, but it's a it's a tale of many years in rural Colombia, where my wife and I, my wife Alba and I, uh bought and restored colonial ruined houses, ruined colonial houses. Because Montbos, the town, and in the title, is a UNESCO World Heritage Site along the banks of the Magdalena River in Colombia. So a very, very important part of Colombian history, colonial history, and so on. And we ended up buying houses, restoring them, and opening two hotels and our own and our own little house there. I mean, we live in Bogota, but this and actually the adventures we encountered along the way are sufficient enough to have filled a book. And that's why I put it together. And you know, I it started, let's say, back in 2008, when we started with the first building and sort of curious real estate observations, and then it becomes over this more than a decade, it becomes a study of how Colombia changes as well, and how my perception of Colombia and how I change in that period as well.

SPEAKER_02: 4:25

So, how has Colombia changed? Because in the past, Colombia, when you think of Colombia, had a lot of uh problems with like gangs and drugs, and like you have shows like narcos and and stuff like that. So, how has Colombia changed in even in terms of the global perspective or uh of when they when they think of Colombia?

SPEAKER_00: 4:45

Well, Colombia is a long-term bet.

SPEAKER_02: 4:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 4:48

Colombia today is better than it was 15 years ago, and Colombia 15 years ago was better than it was 15 years before that. Yes, in the 80s and early 90s, 90s, there was a dreadful spate of kidnappings. Everybody knew someone that had been kidnapped. Of course, the narco business, Colombia still remains to this day as the number one producer of coca, the base element for cocaine. There is a conflict which has evolved over time. However, 2016, which is about sort of midway in the writing of this book, there was a peace agreement signed with the biggest guerrilla group, that's the FARC guerrillas, and actually that ushered in a different evolution of how Colombia was seen. A nation with so much resilience that this could actually occur. Yes, there's a lot of people in opposition to what was signed, and there's a lot of people in favor. That's always going to be the way. But at the same time, there was a there was a psychological, let's say, transformation in Colombia that took place. And this opened the door to positive reporting about Colombia for quite some time, for the first time in quite some time, and it opened the door to tourism. So there's a whole different aspect now. We know this is a country which is known justifiably for its violence, but it's unjustifiably labeled as a totally violent country. Because you could come here, travel around, visit loads of places, and never know that there's a conflict in the hinterlands, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 6:24

So, okay, I want to ask like a naive touristy question, which is dot laugh. If somebody comes and asks you, is it safe to travel to Colombia now? What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00: 6:38

I'd say it's safe. Be like everywhere. You know, use your common sense, don't walk down empty streets uh at nighttime. You know, look where you are, don't flash cash, and you know, use reputable operators, and and you should be absolutely fine. If you are out looking for the illicit project uh products of Colombia, you're probably gonna get in trouble.

SPEAKER_02: 7:01

Have you ever got you know in a dangerous situation?

SPEAKER_00: 7:05

Or oh, there's been all sorts of things. Well, the worst one was actually a journalism-related one many years ago. I'd written a piece for the BBC, and it was about the military, and it was, you know, based on interviews and so on. And a news magazine in Colombia called Semana Magazine picked up the article and translated it and then threw it on their website, but they translated it and didn't get the nuances of what had been written in English. So then suddenly these generals of the army were calling up the BBC and making complaints. They obviously know how to get my number. They called me to say, uh, you know, how dare you write this, you know, likening us to the guerrilla groups. And I said, I in no way have I ever said that. What I said is that the army has also been proven to have been involved in human rights abuses, but you know, but but it was translated into Spanish, which actually didn't didn't fill that that kind of criteria. Anyway, so then they were then they were sort of threatening me, take the article down, write a write everything. I said, no. And the BBC then got an official translator in in London to go through it, and then they proved that I was right. Then the news magazine came back to me and said, Would you like us to write an apology? I said, I said, absolutely not. Just take it down and don't contact me ever again. I do not want to be news, but it was it gets pretty scary when you've got the the you know high-ranking generals calling you, you know, on your phone.

SPEAKER_02: 8:45

I'm I'm glad you're okay.

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 8:47

So I want to pivot a bit and talk about your imprint. So I'm like really curious about why you decide to do that, and what is kind of the practical steps or the mechanism of starting your own print, and what gave you the idea?

SPEAKER_00: 9:09

Well, I'll I'll start at the beginning is that you know, COVID came along, and my side business of the hotels in this town, Montpost, obviously collapsed and went through the floor, everything was cancelled. There was no real journalism work because it was the same article being written daily. So we were just watching everything collapse, basically, work-wise. And over some conversations with my wife, we were sort of like, you know, I was saying, well, what is it I really want to do? And one of the things was to publish books. And the reason for this was to try and produce books, so narrative nonfiction telling truths about Colombia, not just all of the narcos stories. You mentioned it, you alluded to narcos on TV. I, you know, I watched five episodes of that, but it wasn't for me. I mean, I I'm here, I know the story, and for example, my wife has lived the history of it, so it's not aimed at Colombians, but uh, and I'm not against the show because people are watching it and learning something about Colombia, but I wanted to show other things. And it's not a question of just being positive, but it's putting it in the balance and having it as literature rather than academia or journalism. And so that was the idea. And of course, then I was approached by my first author that we represent, who's Barry Max Wills, and he wrote this book, Better Than Cocaine. And the issue with that is Colombians hate the title, because of course it, you know, Columbia cocaine. But once you read the first page, you realize it's a basically a love letter to Colombia. When he bought a coffee farm, sight unseen, sight unseen from London with his partner, who's Colombian. People in London said to him, What are you going to grow there? Cocaine. That was the reaction. He said, No, better than cocaine. And there it is. Now, 15 years later, he's a successful coffee farmer, living and accepted in this wonderful uh pastoral existence. And that's it. It's a very humorous look at life in in Colombia. Then, so that this was the idea. The practicalities, as you say, I mean, it's it's not difficult to set up an imprint. Okay. But then who do you want to represent and who do you want to publish, and how do you want to do it? And of course, you know, you and I are journalists, so we we we know a little bit about the business, and you know a lot more because you were you were publishing for some time now. But so I set up the imprint, and how do we go about this? And actually, in Colombia, not too difficult to go about it. And I I've always been quite sort of old school in the idea. I I do want physical copies of the book, I do want it on bookshelves. So right at the beginning, we we started printing. It's it's obviously cheaper to do so in this part of the world, and it's in an English language, all of our books are in an English language bookshop and in several independent uh Spanish or Colombian bookshops, and they sell very well because people, travelers, people visiting and businessmen and so on, are looking for English language books telling stories about Colombia. So it's been very positive on that front. And but in practicality, yes, the printing is fine, the imprint is fine. It's the the the uh complexities come into it when you're dealing with the authors, because obviously, as the let's say the director of this of this imprint, uh myself, you know, I assume the cost to begin with. But there's no, you know, I I say to the people straight up, there's nothing hidden at all. It's like I have no money for an advance uh at all. We what we'll do is I will use the imprint, I will use my know-how and all of my contacts, getting into the shops and everything else, getting online, obviously into Amazon and KDP, which is very straightforward, that for the international side of things. And we'll um as soon as we make the money back from the costs invested into printing and editing and and whatever else, then we then have an agreement and and we'll sign a contract on you know what goes to the author and what goes to the imprint, the editor. And of course, you know, I need to make some money because I'm doing the legwork, I'm getting out there, and so on and so forth. So it's been very positive because, in other terms, you know, maybe Barry and maybe Andre, who is who's the other author I've represented, I represent, wouldn't have got their books published without this kind of personal focus and this belief in what they're writing. So it's been good like that. But but, and that this is the big but is I spent a month in the UK this summer and sourced where to print in the UK and sourced how to get distributors. Because here in Colombia, I do the legwork. You know, I'll walk down to the bookshops and drop off the books. They email me, I'll do all the fact. But of course, you know, again, as I say, I'm kind of an old romantic in this. I do want to see the books on bookshelves. I do want that visibility. You know, it would be a dream, for example, to get into the Dawn's bookshop in Marlebone, you know, the travel bookshop. While my books aren't travel books, because they're about Colombia, they fall into that category very easily. You know, could I get them onto that shelf? I mean, it would be amazing, wouldn't it? Especially for my authors, to get them in there. So I've we've sourced the distributors, we've sourced the printers, and on October the 20th, all three of our books will be imprint in the UK. Next market is the US, of course.

SPEAKER_02: 14:40

Well, I hope someone who's listening can can help you with that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:44

Yes, please. Anyone, anyone, yeah, get in touch.

SPEAKER_02: 14:47

All right, so okay, so I have a lot of questions about that. So you only publish nonfiction?

SPEAKER_00: 14:53

At the moment. At the moment, it might be, I I am open to anything, okay, but at the moment, nonfiction.

SPEAKER_02: 14:59

Why nonfiction?

SPEAKER_00: 15:00

I just get the feel that the way the the three books that we've published have been published by people who have worked either in academia or journalism, or Barry, for example, helped worked on film scripts in the in the UK. So they've they've got this way of writing. They already know that they're writing from experience, personal experience. And so you can see it. And it's the writing style is not what I would say flabby. It's not overly descriptive. There's not adjectives everywhere. It's you know, it's pared down so you can read it fast. I don't want to liken it too much to someone like Hemingway, but you read Hemingway fast. The sentences are short, they're not complex, but it's a beautiful way of reading. And so I think I wanted to start with that style, the non-na uh non-narrative, non-fiction. However, I would be open to fiction in the future if it if it really appeals to what I think my imprint wants to represent. And I want to represent newer voices from Latin America and of course Colombia.

SPEAKER_02: 16:09

Okay. So you you won't be open to someone from other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

It's very difficult for me to represent someone if I don't know the place and the context. I know all of Latin America and and the people and the culture, but you know, for s for example, I I wouldn't even know where to start in in a, for example, your your experience in Jordan or someone like that. I wouldn't know where to start. It it wouldn't be right.

SPEAKER_02: 16:32

Okay, I see. And they only submit in English. They won't submit in Spanish.

SPEAKER_00: 16:38

For now, English.

SPEAKER_02: 16:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:40

However, again, it could open in Spanish. If we could move that way.

SPEAKER_02: 16:45

Okay. And how are you publicizing this? Like how do people find you or find about you and your imprint?

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

Well, I wish that more of them would find out. Obviously, we're on the social media channels and so on. But you know, that the getting someone hooked by via those is always hit and miss, isn't it? I found that that doing the legwork has really been the key thing. Now, I've got an author, Andre Gomez Suarez, who is he is well known. He's an academic in the UK from Colombia. He is actually a peace negotiation negotiator for the government in one of the conflict areas of the country. So he's he's recognized. And because he's recognized, it's made it very easy to organize events. Now we've had two events in Colombia. No, he's actually had three events, but we've had two events that I've organized here in Bolgata, both incredibly well attended with a moderator who's a you know top-end political scientist and a university professor. So, of course, people come along. And that's when you get, I mean, it's the one most wonderful filter. You get the people who want to be there, who want to read the book, who know the, and so they bull by it. And that's you know, that word of mouth from the first person who goes to one event and then comes to the next and then buys the book. And of course, Andre, based in the UK, with connections at Oxford University, connections in Edinburgh University, at London University, has also set up events there. So when you have an when you have an author who's prepared to do some of the legwork as well, that's very positive. Now, Barry himself was we've done a couple of events in Bogota, and he's shortly, I think it's this weekend, will be on Australian radio promoting his book. So that's, I mean, this is quite this is quite cool, but it's it's about hammering away and and getting out there, more than always, let's say, flooding social media with what you have to offer. Because it people get tired, you know? People get tired of seeing the same advertising or the same thing being pitched.

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:50

But maybe you have uh far more experience. I I don't know how you've done it, Natasha.

SPEAKER_02: 18:55

Like publish like promoting my books and my business. I think for me, what worked the best is social media and LinkedIn and not any social media. And I think we were chatting about it before we started, which is LinkedIn is where I see most traction and most interest and engagement and leads and clients. It's it's from LinkedIn because people are actually serious about what they wanna do. I mean, the likes that you get on Instagram or the retweets, they they're they're not gonna pay your bills, right? They're just gonna they're vanity metrics. You don't wanna get bugged into that. And and most of the people who like and comment on your stuff are not the people who are gonna buy your books. There's people who are gonna buy your books are the silent observers who are like watching what you're doing and not commenting, which and some of these are your biggest supporters, which was and which was interesting for me to understand. I think I'm still curious about your imprint and the potential that you have, especially when it comes to fiction and Colombia, because it's what it was the birth of of speculative fiction or uh magical realism.

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

Magical realism.

SPEAKER_02: 20:19

Yeah, with like Gabriel Garcia Marquez and and you know mostly him. So the potential of fiction coming out from Colombia, I think, you know, building on the giants like Gabriel Garcia Marquez is is huge, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 20:36

Yeah, I mean, why not? I mean, why not find a new author? Maybe not magical realism. There is a move to try and move away from it, of course, because he does. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, of course, is a huger, larger than life character in Columb in the Colombian world. Obviously, he passed away some time ago now, but you know, he is, when you think of Colombia or literature, it's Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I mean, that's it. But there's you know, newer authors perhaps trying to get out from beneath of his shadow. It is an exciting prospect. And then perhaps getting them translated into English for an English market. So starting in Spanish, why not? I'm not closing the door. I'm not closing the door at all.

SPEAKER_02: 21:19

Yeah, yeah. What about your books? What are you working on now?

SPEAKER_00: 22:12

Well, excitingly, excitingly, the the book I wrote about, you know, a reference book about Colombia's politics and history and culture called Columbia Crossroads, a historical and social biography. Its first print run has sold out here in Colombia. So I'm I'm now working on getting that printed again. A second, but but just a second printing, but I will be doing an update later on in months' time next year. Uh, we have elections in Colombia next year, so I'm gonna wait until the elections have happened to be able to update on all of that situation. It's been very interesting here because we've had our first ever. A leftist president who hasn't been a success. He hasn't been a, I mean, if you look at it, he hasn't been a failure, but he hasn't been a success in that he hasn't obviously delivered on all of the pie in the sky promises that he made. So it'll be a lot to update and it'll be fun. That sells very well, of course, and because people are looking for information up to date about Colombia. So I'll work on that. But the other thing I'm we're putting together, I want to put together a collection again of nonfiction stories about Colombia celebrating Colombia. So I actually made a call on our Substack some months ago and have had a really good reception to that from both Colombians and foreigners. And we're going to put together a series of stories for a book that celebrates Colombia, going through the regions. I mean, Colombia is so very varied. And there's a I think German lady who spent a lot of time living with an indigenous family in the south of the country. She's going to talk about the culture of that. I've got a coco, so cacao grower who's going to write about her experiences. I've got stories from Bogota, Cartagena. A German lady who's become a cowboy in Colombia is going to submit a story. So we've got lots of stories coming through. But again, not going to hide from the negatives, but it's still going to be a celebration of Colombia. And this was brought about in that one, the English language bookstore in Bogota called Bookworm. The owner said to me, you know, we love the books that you're selling here. You know, nine times out of ten, when people come in looking for a book about Colombia, they want a nice book with with uh, again, nonfiction stories in it. Could you do that? And I said, Well, you know, why not? So I've put out a call. Deadline would be around the beginning of December, and then I get to edit in December, January, and hopefully by Easter next year, we'll be bringing out this collection. I don't have a title for the book yet or anything, but it's very much a work in progress.

SPEAKER_02: 24:47

So, in terms of the stuff to run your imprint, who's run a staff of one? It's okay. What about like the typesetting and you know, because there's a you have to do typesetting for the book, sending it to the printer, editing cover design. There's a lot of line edits, copy edits, all of that.

SPEAKER_00: 25:09

Well, fortunately, fortunately, I have a great editor here. It's all freelancers, all freelancers, but the idea is that everything is done in Colombia as well. There's such a huge reservoir of talented and professional people here.

SPEAKER_01: 25:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 25:25

So, but in terms of English language, we I do have an English language, and he's English, he's born married to a Colombian, he lives here. He is an editor, he's called the Open Book Editor, and he's excellent. So, again, if you just looked online, the open book editor, Dan Cross, he's a writer himself, so he's the editor that we have. And then, of course, I have a designer, again, freelance, very uh, very uh, very professional, very competent designer. And we do, he does the typesetting, he does the the fonts, and of course, we decide on how to do the design, of course, the book cover and so on. He's been incredibly good at that, actually. I'm you know, I'm I I remain speechless when when he puts stuff together. Again, these are these are I think are necessary investments because you can tell the quality of a book as well. You know, the the cover is so very important.

SPEAKER_02: 26:18

Yeah, that's true. I I do judge a book by its cover.

SPEAKER_00: 26:22

I think everybody does.

SPEAKER_02: 26:25

All right, so okay, I want to talk about your podcast. So you've you've been running your podcast for a very long time before podcasts were really became popular, like with the whatever that show called serial or whatever. And then I remember that kind of brought podcasts back into the line, and now podcasts are like exploding. And there's now a shift to move podcasts to YouTube rather than you know, and and all of that. And you know, I'm like busy trying to jump on this trend and that trend. But I wanna like ask about your podcast. Are you still doing it? How often, and how do you monetize it if you actually do monetize it?

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

Yeah, so it's the Columbia Calling podcast, and it's been going since 2013 or 12, I don't recall. We're now on episode 588. Oh wow. It only used to be audio. We only used I only used to throw it up onto Spotify and iTunes and SoundCloud, you know, through the through through those libsims so on and liberated syndication stuff. But now I put it onto YouTube as well with the image. I don't get that much traction. I mean, I don't really know how interesting it is watching me and some others chatting on a camera. But there is traction.

SPEAKER_01: 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:47

And I've noticed, I guess it's Generation Z that seems to like it. I don't really know. I just know that I need to be there. So I put it up.

SPEAKER_01: 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Uh we we produce a podcast every week.

SPEAKER_01: 27:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 27:58

I have my psychic, uh, my co-host is Emily Hart, who is an English journalist, very, very uh an excellent journalist. She writes for the New York Times and and other magazines and newspapers. But so she's in Medellin, I'm in Bogota. She does the Columbia briefing, which is a very in-depth and robustly uh reported news brief.

SPEAKER_01: 28:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 28:19

So people come to it for the news brief. She does about 10 minutes on what's going on in Colombia. 10 minutes is never enough to tell what's going on in Colombia. Everything changes so often, but she's excellent at it. And then she or I host a full episode, which is usually around 45 minutes, interviewing someone who has something interesting to say. Colombia is the lens for the podcast, but it doesn't necessarily have to be about Colombia. I, you know, I've I've interviewed someone who who knows Colombia well but had a book coming out uh about Bolivia. Okay. And so we were able to sort of mix it up and so on. And my favorite ones are usually politically oriented ones because it's perhaps the most complex situation is the politics in Colombia. Emily is very, very culturally minded. She likes that kind of thing. But you know, I we we bat around ideas uh a lot and uh and it makes it work. The monetizing is directly through Patreon. So directly through people who subscribe to patreon.com forward slash Columbia Calling if you are interested. There we go. Nice little plug there. You know, and it's not a lot of money, it covers its costs and makes a bit, and uh Emily makes some money. So, you know, we we we keep but we realize both of us that it's bigger than just the let's say the paycheck. It keeps our profiles up and we both get more work alongside it. And due to it, there is a, you know, having been around for so long, it's kind of like a reference point. We we listen to Columbia Calling, we know that, and then they know about then they learn about the books, or then they learn about articles written, and then they learn about, you know, for example, my hotels. So there's a kind of a big marketing uh game that goes on. And then you know, I was approached by a different company called Latin News out of London. It's a it's a you know in uh a corporate uh sort of risk and analysis company, and they said, Well, do you want to host our next podcast called the Latin News Podcast? And so that's been going for a couple of y years now, and I do bi-weekly stuff about anywhere in Latin America, according to their editorial calendar, and that wouldn't have come about without the Columbia Cooling Podcast and various other, various other sort of analysis, you know, consulting that I've done in the past have come about due to that. So it's it's sort of more of a platform, but I enjoy it. I wouldn't have kept going for this long if I didn't enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02: 30:43

That's true. So, what do you offer the Patreon subscribers for subscribe?

SPEAKER_00: 30:48

Well, they often get but they usually get the uh podcasts earlier. Okay, because I've usually recorded them earlier, and also special, uh special explainer episodes. I often do special explainer episodes when they're newsworthy. So, for example, let's say yesterday in Colombia there was a ruling about and it's political trickery that's taking place, but it's clearly not making the international news. And so me and another journalist will put together, you know, a 20-minute explainer episode, which will go out to our Patreons, and then they'll get something that's not in the international press. They are signed up because they obviously have a vested interest in what's going on in Colombia, and they get special insights into what's going on. And of course, you know, you sign up and you're pledging something and you're getting other deals. We do offer our books at a discount on there, and indeed there are some merchandise on there as well if you're a you know a long-term thing. But more and more than anything, many people main in the US, obviously, that's our main market. In the US, people understand that you should pay something for content, especially if it's quality. You're a journalist, I'm a journalist. You know, you don't go in someone once told me once, you don't go into a shoe shop and walk out with shoes on your feet for free. Why do you think you should, you know, you pay a little bit, pay a little something for high quality content?

SPEAKER_02: 32:11

And why do you think the US is your biggest market? And you're both of you are two British journalists, right?

SPEAKER_00: 32:17

Well, it it's this, but it's this it's this part of the world. It's this part of the world. It's it's kind of like the US sphere of influence. And especially right now, what's going on? You know, our president is in a in a petulant tit for tat with President Trump at the moment. So, and of course, there were the we get a lot of people from the Colombian diaspora who are listeners. So you've got sort of third generation Colombians who may not speak Spanish and may not have trod foot, you know, have their parents may have fled, or their grandparents may have fled, or they may have just moved for other reasons. They're looking for information about Colombia. So that is, and of course, the US is the biggest market. It's the it's it's the one you go for for an English market.

SPEAKER_02: 32:57

So you have a huge opportunity in the US to sell your books if if if your market is the US and a lot of Colombian experts or second or third generation. I mean, this it's an untapped market. Come on, Richard, go get the Well, Natasha.

SPEAKER_00: 33:13

Again, as we say, whoever's listening, get in touch. Like you can find me anywhere. I am I am open to anything. But no, I want to. Obviously, it's the next thing. But of course, just being English, just you know, it a little more, a little easier culturally. And of course, I was there in in the UK for the summer. So it was a a fact-finding mission. And now, yes, I will be calling in, as I said, all favors in the US from anyone I've ever met at any point to see how we can get our books in there.

SPEAKER_02: 33:44

Yeah. So what does your day look like? Since you since, first of all, you're you're a dad and you're a husband, and you run your business and multiple kind of sides projects. So, how does your day look like?

SPEAKER_00: 34:01

No, it's never, there's never one similar day to the next. It's always different. You see, at the moment, again, I a c a project I didn't mention. An unknown piece of history in Colombia, well, I mean, for Colombians not, but outside of Colombia is that in the War of Independence against Spain, so way back in the day, there there were members of a British Legion that were out of work after the Napoleonic Wars. So they came over and fought with Simon Bolivar, so the the great liberator of all northern South America. So there is a cemetery that was given by Simon Bolivar to members who people of the British Legion who died in the independence battles. Back in looking at the 19th century, it's in downtown Bogota, and the trustees of that cemetery are still British, and they've asked me to do a book on the British cemetery. So, for example, today I was up speaking to an older member of the British community here who's been here, you know, since the 1960s, to hear some anecdotes about the past, what the cemetery means to him, what Colombia was like back in the day. So I've been tracing the histories from immigrants, British immigrants to Colombia from dating back to the to the British Legion to the current day, to then put this book together about basically the British community. So that's just one bizarre thing that I've been doing over morning. And then I was, you know, negotiating with the bookshop in Cartagena, which is the city on the Caribbean coast, to start stocking our books because frankly, it's the number one tourist destination in the country, and the cruise ships all go in there. So hundreds, if not thousands, of people, you know, drop into uh into Cartagena on an almost a daily basis. I need to be in a bookshop there. So I've been negotiating with them. Then I found out that Andre, our author in in the UK, has organized an event for October 22nd in the University of Edinburgh. So I've been working on that, getting books to him for that. So it never ends. And then then the minutiae of of uh you know dealing with stuff about the hotels uh and so on, and and then of course, you know, being a parent. I mean it's full time anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 36:17

Yeah, yeah. Oh wow. So before we conclude, what would your I think top advice, not for a writer per se, but for a creative who wants because you and I were talking about the creative life and and living on your own terms. What would your be your top advice or tips for someone who wants to lead a life on their own terms where they do projects that they love, they're not bound by one employer, you know. They're well and and it's it's not an easy life, it's rewarding, but it's so what would you tell them? Someone who's been doing that, I think since you graduated, since you graduated. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:07

Yep, yeah. I try to have a full-time job on a few occasions, it's just never worked out. My shortest was six days.

SPEAKER_02: 37:16

That's a record.

SPEAKER_00: 37:17

Yeah, I know. This uh for advice for anyone is if you have a day job, don't give it up straight away. You know, make some money, work in your own time, and once you get to a respectful level, then think about re quitting the day job. But part of the issue about a day job, like studying, it's the contacts. Look at you and I 20 years later, it's the contacts. Yeah, and that's one of the things. If you if you you know quit to then sort of live as like a hermit doing your own thing in your in your attic, you may not have the contacts to get it out there because social media is something, but it's not everything. So, you know, uh, I was saying save some money, do some work before you take the plunge. Also, have thick skin because everybody says it won't work. Almost everybody. You then you find the creatives in your life, your friends, who support you unconditionally. That's that people surround yourself with the people who are going to support you. Otherwise, it's going to be very negative indeed. Uh and the other thing I would say is, you know, don't be be prepared to evolve. Because the first plan you have will probably not be the final plan that you end up making a success of it. You will have to evolve along the way and be flexible. But don't you one thing you always remember, and and Natasha, you know this well, as a as you are a creative and as you are independent, we never switch off.

SPEAKER_02: 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:49

You're working the whole time. And that's you need to remember that. It's the whole time.

SPEAKER_02: 38:54

But do you want to switch off? That is the question.

SPEAKER_00: 38:56

Is no exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 39:00

That is the point. Is that when you are in that mindset, your mind is always creating, whether you're on a run in the shower, you know, it's it's you you cannot afford to switch off because for me, I won't feel alive if I just switch off that part of me. And I think few people understand that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

Also, it that's not for everyone. That's not for everyone. But you know, once you have it and you can do it and you love it, then there's no way back.

SPEAKER_02: 39:29

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 39:31

I don't want a boss anywhere, please.

SPEAKER_02: 39:33

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, uh, Richard, we've we've been talking for a while, and you and me will be chatting before we recorded, so I took a lot of your time. But thank you very much. This this has been wonderful. And for anyone who's listening or watching, make sure to check out uh check out Richard's books and his imprint book, the latest of which his book, The Mumpus Project, and his imprint is better than cocaine. This one, yeah, yeah, this one. And then it's We're not Made of Sugar, childhood memoir from Colombia, and also his very long-running podcast, uh Columbia Calling. He's like the godfather of podcasting. Um and uh so how did I do with the podcast? If you want to. It was wonderful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 40:23

Thank you. I've enjoyed myself very much.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

Okay, thank you very much, uh Richard. And for anyone who's uh watching or listening, thank you very much for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. And until we meet again and salam. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, Natasha Times. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time.