Speaker 1: 0:03

I was maybe 18 or 19. It was a letter to the editor and in it I was complaining about something that happened to me. I wanted to work the night shift Because I was at school. I was going to college and it was, I think, a telemarketer or something. And the guy who worked there he was like was like yeah, we liked you, but we cannot hire you. And I was like why? He was like back then I probably changed. Like the jordanian labor law does not allow women to work the night shift, it's only men. So I got so pissed. I was like this is, you know, I'm okay with that, my parents are okay with that. Why are you like oh, I cannot violate the law. And that's when I wrote the letter to the editor and it actually got responses.

Speaker 1: 1:00

Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast. Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast. My name is Natasha Tynes and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel I talk about the writing life, review books and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha.

Speaker 1: 1:26

All right, today we have a very, very special episode, one of its kind. Today I'm not going to be doing the interviewing, but author Jean Alfieri is going to interview me about the business of writing. It's exciting. I have to admit I'm a bit nervous because we're flipping the script here. But before we get started, let me tell you a bit about Jean. Jean Alfieri is an author, speaker and a dog fan. She has published over 10 children's books to date and two nonfiction books for adults, all of them about dogs. Jean and her husband joke that although they pay the mortgage of their home in Colorado, it's really the dog's house. You can find out more about Jean at dogauthorcom. All right, this is so exciting. Jean, the floor is yours.

Speaker 2: 2:16

It is Thank you and thanks for being willing to do this. I have had the pleasure of attending your classes and doing writing sprints and getting your newsletter and all writing sprints and getting your newsletter and all of these things, and every time I find out something new about you and I'm like huh, I didn't know, she did that, I didn't know. So I appreciate this and I believe your followers are going to enjoy it too. I know you prefer to go off the cuff. I have a couple of things that I wanted to be sure to ask you and I'm sure that will you know. We'll grow on. Find different questions from there, but first, okay, so you do many things. You're an author, a writer, a correspondent, a facilitator. You teach, you guide. What would you title yourself when you introduce yourself? Who do you say you are?

Speaker 1: 3:03

when you introduce yourself, who do you say you are? That's a good existential question, and I guess I would say I'm a full-time writer, I think, because that's what I do in general. I mean, most of my work comes or like the way I pay the bus is from writing mostly for clients, plus my own creative writing and from ghost writing. So I think that's just really how I can summarize what I do, and I also have a degree in journalism, so that kind of aligns well with it. So yeah, that's probably what I would say Okay.

Speaker 2: 3:40

And you offer classes, you coordinate cohorts, you interview up and coming writers. That takes a lot of time out of your day, and why do you do that? What do you benefit from it and what do you hope others will benefit from?

Speaker 1: 3:55

to share, and I think that's a bit of a curse because I talk a lot, but at the same time I feel that you know, I've been doing this since the mid-90s. I mean, that's a really long time, that's over 25 years. So sharing what I have and sharing my knowledge is very rewarding. And just being behind the computer all day writing it's fun, but at the same time I want something different and it can also be lonely. So doing these webinars, these cohorts, yes, it also brings income, but at the same time I have a community. I learn from them as much as they learn from me and I just seeing their words and like when some of the students like eyes lit up when they hear a new idea or something that works for them. It's extremely rewarding and kind of breaks up the day instead of just me and the computer and Google Docs.

Speaker 2: 5:00

Yeah, I think that's really valuable. I have found that to be true too. You know you talk about writing and most of us are introverts and we just wanna write, and yet you know you have to stay in touch with the world. And how do you do that? I mean, you welcome people into your home through your computer to help you engage with others, and that's, you know, it's safe and it's exciting at the same time. So I absolutely appreciate that. I feel the same way. I love when I can just tuck myself away and simply write. But you need to stay connected too, and I think that's a beautiful way to stay connected. What assignment or writing project would you love to do again If you could go back in time? Yeah, yeah, what stood out for you?

Speaker 1: 5:45

So a few months ago I wrapped up a training for Ukrainian journalists and it was on the art of pitching and it was amazing, honestly, because, yeah, it took a lot of work for me because I had to prepare the materials and I read all the pitches and I gave them feedback. But, first of all, just hearing from journalists in a war zone, you know different cultures, sharing my experience and we're still in touch until now with many of them and you know, even preparing for it was fun, you know, being live talking with them, the feedback that I get at the end, it was great, it was amazing. I think that is one project I would love to do again and again. Another thing I love live speaking as well, obviously. So I like to be on panels. I remember a few years ago I was at a conference in Dubai and I was moderating a debate on podcasting and it was all women, all female panel and it was fun.

Speaker 2: 7:03

So I love to do these things, just to kind of take a break from just writing nonstop. Right Now you've been interviewing other people for your podcast. For how long, how many years have you been doing that? Three years, okay. Has there been anyone in that three-year time that's really stood out to you that you either knew in advance of having on your show, or really impressed you during the show, anybody that really stands out with what they brought during the show?

Speaker 1: 7:25

Anybody that really stands out with what they brought. Yeah, I mean, there's there's. There's a lot of stories I can tell you and many of them inspired me and taught me something. I think for me it was not mostly about writing, but the the, the story, the story behind the story, which is the story of resilience. So, for example, I interviewed a woman who she was like a regular suburban mom and wanted a volunteer job. So she volunteered at the prison and I think she used to bring animals dogs to the prisoners and she fell in love with a murder suspect. And I think she used to bring animals dogs to the prisoners and she fell in love with a murder suspect and she helped him escape. She put him in a dog crate and they escaped and then there was like a police chase and eventually they found her and put her in prison and she paid her dues. That was, I think, 20 years ago and now she's out. She's out of prison, she's married to a different man, but she wrote a book about her experience and now she's helping other women publish their books, work with women in prison and all of that, and for me it's how she turned her life around, admitted her mistake and she did not let that mistake break her and she kind of turned that obstacle into something that you know to do for the good of society. So that was something I'll never forget.

Speaker 1: 9:02

Another story was a man, an older gentleman, hispanic, who grew up in a migrant family and he was mute when he was young and because of that he was groomed by a family, like a white family next to them, and they kidnapped him and from his family there was, like I think, a lot of kids and he was the one who did not speak and they sexually trafficked him. They, they put him in a ranch in texas where, like men would come back and and it was awful and it was really like one of the hardest interviews I've ever done. But I mean, again, he turned his life around, he's an activist, he's married with kids, but what he went through, maybe in the 80s or the 70s, it was horrible. I also interviewed another woman who was sex trafficked. So, like you hear these stories and how people overcame them, it's a story of resilience and the human spirit.

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah, so, with all of the things you've heard, all of the stories you've covered, all of the people that you've interacted with, how did you know, as early in your career as you did, that this is what you wanted to do? How did you know that this was going to be something you would just embrace and love, like telling stories? Yeah, writing for others, being a journalist, all of the things that you I mean your career has really evolved into a number of different things, but how did it start originally? How did you know this was what you wanted to do?

Speaker 1: 10:41

So I knew I wanted to write, since I was in elementary school. I remember maybe I was like I remember, maybe I was like I don't know fifth or fourth grade and we had to submit an essay and it was in Arabic because, you know, that's my native language and I grew up in Jordan, and the teacher said and I was really worried, you know, like I was kind of a perfectionist at heart and the teacher told the whole class if there was a higher grade than 10 out of 10, I would have given it to Natasha. Wow, so that's what I realized, that you know what that's like, what I want to do. It's interesting what, like one sentence from a teacher in elementary school can change the trajectory of your whole life.

Speaker 2: 11:35

Yeah, and I haven't written my whole life, but I wrote early on and I've journaled throughout my life. So for myself I guess I've written, but it's different to put it out into the world. Right, it's just when you then present it. How did you feel about that first thing that you published? How easy or difficult was that for you?

Speaker 1: 11:57

So I think the first thing that was published in a newspaper, I was maybe 18 or 19. It was a letter to the editor and in it I was complaining about something that happened to me. I wanted to work the night shift because I was at school, I was going to college and it was, I think, a telemarketer or something. And the guy who worked there he was like, yeah, we liked you, but we cannot hire you. And I was like why? He was like back then I probably changed. Like the Jordanian labor law does not allow women to work the night shift, it's only men. So I got so pissed. This is discrimination. You know, I'm okay with that, my parents are okay with that. Why you're like oh, I cannot violate the law, la la la. And that's when I I wrote, wrote the letter to the editor and it actually got responses. And that's when I realized that my voice can actually, you know, make a difference. You know, can make people like, can create debates and discussions, and maybe it will actually create some sort of a positive change. And that was the first thing, create some sort of a positive change. And that was the first thing. Um, and then, but the paid one was, I think a year later I was chatting with a friend and she mentioned that she works for a newspaper uh, on a freelance basis.

Speaker 1: 13:22

So I told her I want to do it. So she introduced me to the editor and I didn't have a computer, I didn't have anything. So I decided to pitch them an art exhibit in Jordan and they said, fine, so I go, I attend the exhibit. I had to write it and I think I went to my friend's house because her brother had a computer and it was like being very resourceful I don't think he had. We had internet. We might have had to fax it or something like I. I used every single like resource you can think of to make it happen and it worked and they accepted it and and they paid me and I got published, um in newspaper and I think I was 19. I'm 48 now, so do the math.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Sure, and then you were off there. You went Exactly, exactly, yeah. So, and it's interesting how people can pivot you because I feel like just hearing something that you didn't anticipate. So for me, I moved into the HR arena. I wasn't doing anything with regard to writing per se and I met up with a friend 15 years out of high school hadn't seen her in all that time and she asked me what I was doing and I said I'm in human resources and she kind of frowned and I went what's wrong? And she's like no, you should be a writer. Because she remembered back to grade school. You know a writing project that we had done and I completely forgot that. I'm like why would anyone in the world think of this? And she's like, yeah, I just thought you'd be writing things. Then you get defensive and I'm like, well, I write important memos that the whole company reads every day. She's like, no, no, not that kind of writing, like real writing. And then it stuck with me. You know, when someone like looks in your mirror and tells you something that you maybe either forgot or never realized, it's just interesting what those pivotal points are for us in a career. Really, in the time you've been doing this.

Speaker 2: 15:22

Natasha, you've seen many changes in the field of writing. What would you say has been the most significant? You wrote an article recently about your excitement about AI. Not many people are embracing AI, but you had said this was the most exciting thing you had seen. Since what was it? The internet, the internet, yeah, yeah. So, so what has been? And maybe there are a couple, but what do you find is critical markers that have really influenced the industry?

Speaker 1: 15:52

I mean. The first one is the internet, of course, because before, like when I started in the nineties, the internet was in its infancy, so we did not use like. When we used to, like we wanted to find someone to talk to for an interview, we would call them, which was really hard to find people. It was. So the internet made everything easier to find, the research, all of that. But then AI came and it's probably I mean the terms of impact it has is probably maybe as I did it or maybe even more, but for me it is.

Speaker 1: 16:31

I think the most important aspect of it for writers is the feedback that it provides you in terms of, um, like I can put it, I can write an article and the amount of feedback it gives me is like having an editor sitting right next to me. You might not agree with the feedback, but most of the time it gives really, really great feedback. It also helps with transcription. It helps you find themes. It's having a writing assistant and an editor all wrapped into one and it makes it cut my writing time by like at least 50. So, like, instead of having like three clients in a week, I can have 10 because of AI and also the confidence and like, think about the art of procrastination, right, why do we procrastinate?

Speaker 1: 17:24

Because we either do not have confidence in our ability, we're dreading the white page, and that's why we procrastinate. But now I can start any task with confidence, knowing that I'm not alone. There's a person, there's an accountability partner sitting next to me, right, and that really made me very efficient, fast and also broke the mental barrier that tells you like you know, even after 30 years of writing, sometimes you still have an imposter syndrome, I guess. But you know, it breaks that barrier, it shows you that you know no, this is good, let's work together. And I mean I think for me that's crucial, that's important.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Yeah, Well, and I was a bit hesitant, and I've been hearing people talk about it and how it complements their work. There was a session I attended with you in which you had described how you created your character. You got to see your character. You described to them like a story that you're writing, and to me that was huge, that you could describe what your character looks like and then an illustration or a picture would show up of your person and I'm like, wow, how powerful is that? Because now I actually see who I'm writing about. You know, you may have an image in your head, but when that image appears in front of you, it's a whole different ballgame, correct?

Speaker 1: 19:41

And it helps me write the scene better, because when the image comes, I was like, ah, I didn't notice, like the wrinkles under his eye, or I didn't notice like the the shirt that was wrinkled or whatever, or whatever, and sometimes even write the scene and it comes up with the scene itself and it helps me describe it better. And so these, these like, and, and we just the tip of the iceberg here. I mean, there is so many things we can do and I know many people like dread it and the. You know it doesn't make me a real writer, whatever. I mean I I don't listen to that because it's not a matter of choice now. If you don't embrace it, you're going to fall behind.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Right, and you still have to be your own voice. I mean, it's not going to capture what you sound like, and so it still needs to be your voice. At the end of the day, Because it doesn't know.

Speaker 1: 20:39

Yeah, because I'm the one with the experiences that very unique, like AI does not know. How was it growing up in a man, you know, I mean, I imagine, I mean that's me. It doesn't know. So it's uh, it's, it's for me, it's just, it's my sounding board, my accountability partner, my the editor, sitting next to me and imagine if you hire a full-time editor and they're like attached to you and they're just Imagine how powerful that is and how it would make you.

Speaker 2: 21:16

But yeah, this is how I view it Nice. So I heard something the other day I believe it was out of Harvard University and it was an instructor explaining to her students what we go through between what we know and what we don't know, and she was describing the learning curve, if you will. But the pattern she drew was not a curve, it was a squiggly line right. Here's what we know, here's what we don't know, here's how we get there and how frustrating it is. She said it's always frustrating between what you know and what you don't know, but how you, how you, display resilience.

Speaker 2: 21:49

So we talked about resilience, how that comes into play between what you know and what you don't know is how strong you're going to be, because some point within there you're going to want to give up because it's just so frustrating, it's just so aggravating and it's with everything, not just sitting in school, but with everything in life that we have to experience. And the better you become at it, the more willing you are to sit in that unknown space, because you understand at the end of the day, you're going to get there at some point, but what it's going to take to get you there varies in length. Do you agree with that and if there was someone starting their career path right now in the writing industry, what would you guide them to in that path? How to stick with it? How would you say you need to endure that learning curve?

Speaker 1: 22:34

Yeah, I mean this. What you said reminds me of a book by Seth Godin called the Dip, and it's the whole. Idea is, when you start in a project, you know there's the excitement in the beginning, and then you reach the dip, where you start self-doubt. And if you can just overcome the dip and cross to the other side, you make it. And if you don't which is fine then you realize this is not for you. But we all have to endure the dip, right?

Speaker 1: 23:06

And when it comes to new riders, I think the first thing I would tell them is you need to develop a thick skin, because you put yourself out there, you put your heart and soul, you think you're shakespeare and then, and then the feedback and that's the life of a writer is a feedback from your editor and then from your readers. And, um, you cannot please everyone. So you're gonna get like, on the same piece of content or the book, some people gonna are going to say, oh, this is amazing, I love that. Some people are going to say I hate it. So, and in addition to that, you're going to pitch to like agents or editors and you're going to get rejected as well, and you're going to like self-doubt, and that's one is develop a thick skin.

Speaker 1: 23:52

Another thing I would say is to realize that talent is overrated and it's, I think it plays like 5%. Because if Shakespeare was Shakespeare, if Shakespeare did not write, he decided I'm so talented, nothing is going to be published, right? So Shakespeare put like at least the 10,000 hours. So what is talent if you don't work at it? And the most people who actually become successful are not the people who were born Shakespeare. They're the people who are disciplined, they have a structure, they have a strategy, they read a lot, they improve themselves, they know their weakness, they have a vision. But if you dwell in oh, I'm not talented enough, that just, it's not like writers are not inherently born writers, that's, that is that is my point. If you want to do it and you like it, you'll get there.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Yeah, I love that. I would agree that the tough skin, because it does get tough, especially if you're putting things out there for contest, consideration or what have you. And you're right. I remember it was and I just wrote about this recently. It was seven years ago I had put in to attend. It's called the Mountain of Authors. It's put on by our library district and I'm like, oh, they're going to love me and I'm going to become a millionaire and drive off into the sunset. Now I'll be a successful author. And and I got the rejection letter and I like had to read it three times. I was sure there was a mistake. And so over the years, but what they did offer was that you could do a video, a short three minute video of your book and they would put that on their website. And I'm like, okay, fine, you know I was doing videos anyway, I might as well. So I dressed my little pug up in a tutu and we, you know, advertised the first children's book and then the second year I applied and I didn't get it. And I'm like, okay, we're going to get a new tutu. And we dressed up and we did our little three minute video by the third year. You know, I kind of figured this might be the path I was taking. So I put in the submission and then I went through and got a new tutu and, sure enough, we got rejected.

Speaker 2: 26:00

Now that was six years, six years. This year I put in my my submission and I went through the closet and I picked out an outfit. Right, I knew what was going to happen and I got accepted. I had to read it three times because I was sure there was a mistake and I'm like what is going on? I'm not supposed to. And I and my husband left. I'm like, look, I triple booked myself that day because I didn't think I was going to get the invitation. And he said, well, you're going to move all that stuff, right. And I'm like, absolutely, I wouldn't have appreciated that for six years I got to dress up my little pug in a cute outfit. You know, I would have appreciated being invited.

Speaker 2: 26:44

But, honestly, that journey every year and we did it. We did it again this year. I'm like, no, I got the tutu picked out, we're getting dressed up and we're going to do our little advertisement, like we would have anyway. And you know, I believe there's a joy in just the journey right. You're going to learn things. They aren't all going to be pleasant and they aren't all going to be fun, but they're all going to be for a purpose and if you can enjoy that whole stretch, you're going to be a much happier person at the end of it. I don't think you will give up, you know. I mean, at the end of the day, we have our good time. You know whether we're excited or not, so consider that. What I really want to know is, with all that you've achieved, what is on your bucket list from a professional standpoint? What is still out there for you to achieve? What do you want to?

Speaker 1: 27:29

what are you reaching for? I think for me is to have a number of books published and that I would not need to do any more client work and I would just live off my published books and teaching or like running cohorts, and that I mean it's possible, Um, and that I mean it's it's possible, Um, and I think, because these are the two things that I really enjoy the most and I think that would give me the, the financial freedom and also the lifestyle. Uh, but I think I earned it. I mean, I'm almost 50 now. I worked on my life and I think it's it's it's time to reach that stage. It's probably I don't know it's taken me like maybe 10 years to get there, but uh, um, you know I'll keep grinding and and see. Sure, sure.

Speaker 2: 28:28

So what, if? What haven't I asked that we should know about you? What? What is something that you want people to just know? I mean, maybe they'll find it in a book, maybe they'll find it in a class, but what is it that you want people to know? I play the violin. Oh, how cool. That's incredible. When did you learn that?

Speaker 1: 28:49

When I was 13. And I played at, like the National Symphonic Orchestra in Jordan and now I play at the NIH Community Orchestra. I have a quartet and I play at a chamber music. So I was just actually playing before I jumped on the hood, so I mapped out my retirement. Now I'm going to play music, pick a ball and write books.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Fantastic. That sounds like a fabulous retirement. And you know I'll say I've heard that it's important to have a plan. So there you go, you've got a plan?

Speaker 1: 29:24

Yeah, so I enjoy music a lot and music is a huge part of my life, and so, yeah, so that's something maybe I don't talk much about. I mean, sometimes I post pictures of us playing, but, yeah, I love music.

Speaker 2: 29:40

That's neat. Now you've also started. Is it, are you running? Are you? Is it? Is that your? Yeah, what is your latest achievement? Exercise wise Cause. You've been doing a number of things there too, it's basically I'm trying to age gracefully.

Speaker 1: 29:56

You've been doing a number of things there too. It's basically I'm trying to age gracefully, so I sign up, I mean I go to the gym, but I also sign up for races, like three or four times a year and I train for them. So the last one I did was last week. I did a 10K in our city and it was the fastest I've been, which was not I mean I'm still very slow, but compared to like the year before, the year before. So it's nice. And you realize it's all mental Like if you, how you talk to yourself, you know how to, how to break the limiting beliefs that you know you tell yourself. So it was a nice life lesson.

Speaker 2: 30:45

That's great. Yeah, it is. It is interesting where we learn our life lessons too. I am not a runner, but I love to get up and move around and get outside because the fresh air is just so invigorating, and it helps me if I'm stuck writing too.

Speaker 1: 30:56

Is there any?

Speaker 2: 30:57

is there any writing block cure that you've found? Have you ever had a, a writing block or? Um, how do you get around that? If you, if you, run into that?

Speaker 1: 31:09

Oh, I think I'm going to piss people off and say I'd say that, uh, I don't believe in writer's block. I think it's a myth and I think it was a Stephen King that said it. Like amateurs, you know, like kind of whine about writer's block. Professionals just sit down and write. So for me it's by hook or by crook. I have to write and I have strategies. For example, I try to keep myself in a creative flow all day long. What does that mean? Like I can either start by journaling and then I take a walk in the woods.

Speaker 1: 31:48

If I'm not listening to anything, I get an idea. I pull off my phone, my Otter, which is the app that I use for transcription. I say the idea like an idea for a book that I use for transcription. I say the idea like an idea for a book that I'm working, like for the novel, and then when I when I sit down to write, it's, it's. I just start typing it and the strategy is I try not to start on a blank page. Like, and I even interviewed somebody on the podcast the other day.

Speaker 1: 32:14

She said something I love is that she never starts her writing session writing a new chapter. Oh, so she tried to finish the writing session with a new chapter but not started, because if you open your like whatever manuscript and you have an empty canvas, it's very daunting. It's very daunting. So I don't believe in writer's block, because there are strategies for you to write all the time. If you block the time, have a place where you capture all the ideas and then just get to it. So I honestly think it's a myth and there are ways around it. And if you just treat it as a job, you're not going to go to your office and say, oh, I have a worker's block. You know I can't work today. You know you have to change the work. So that's how I view it.

Speaker 2: 33:16

So I'm sure I pissed off many people Well, and I probably. Yeah, I would offend people too, because I can't say that I've experienced it. So I'm not going to go out on a limb and say it's a myth, but I will say that hasn't been my experience. However, I've gotten stuck sometimes and when I find myself getting stuck, I walk away. I am not going to sit there and dwell on it To your point. I walk away. I am not going to sit there and dwell on it To your point. I will go outside and get a brisk walk, and sometimes that will stir things up or I just shift. I also love scrapbooking and the textile. The working with papers, I feel like, helps me move out of whatever that stuck place is with the writing, and if I return to it the next day or even sometimes a couple hours later, it's going to flow a lot better. So I just kind of shift my creative focus to something else and then come back to it later.

Speaker 1: 34:03

That's yeah, I mean the same. Sometimes when I practice the violin and I keep practicing and it's just not, you know, and then I just leave it and the next day actually it sounds better because I kind of unblocked it. But knowing that, knowing that there are strategies and ways around this kind of kills the idea that there is a writer's block, because if you kind of succumb to that idea, you're never going to write anything.

Speaker 2: 34:32

Right, right, yeah, you just make it worse. That way for sure, yeah, yeah, so, natasha, I that way For sure, yeah, yeah, so, natasha, I don't have anything else. I really appreciate your time. This has been wonderful, thank you for your being so candid and open, and I hope your followers enjoy this, because it's really been a pleasure getting to know you better.

Speaker 1: 34:51

Thank, you, jean. This has been fun and it's your idea and I loved it. And you know, like one of the things that I love about running the podcast is is meeting people like you are becoming friends with, with you, and it's yeah, it's fun, and thank you everyone for listening or watching, and please make sure to check out jean's books. She actually sent me some gifts to my son and they were wonderful and he loved them. So make sure to check jeanswiththedogauthorcom. And thank you again for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. And until we meet again, thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, natasha Tynes. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time, happy reading, happy writing.